New Kilt Day and some comparison

[Crazy Dave]

Stillwater Kilts are right up front that their products are pre-made in Pakistan. They are a great product for the money and perfect for their intended use. But they should never be expected to fit the same way as a made-to-measure or fully bespoke kilt.

Unless you specifically request a custom total length and Fell Area length they will be made 24 inches in total length and the Fell will be approx. 8 inches or 1/3 of the total length. This means that you first measure up, from the top of your knee cap 24 inches, and measure for the waist circumference at that point. And that is where you should wear the waist. If you prefer to wear the waist at somewhere other than where it was designed to be worn it will not look the way it was designed to look. That is not the fault of the kilt or the maker.

If you choose to wear the kilt somewhere other than the way it was designed to be worn the waist circumference may be off and the pleats in the back may not hang well due to the length of the Fell.

As long as you know and accept these limitations and are happy with your purchase all is well. Enjoy your kilt and wear it with pride.

At the price, I don't expect perfection. On my knees, 24 inches is just above my belly button so I should be OK. If it is too long, I have a tailor that can handle hemming it. Should be alright.

Eventually, I think I will be getting a custom fitted kilt in one of the MacPerson tartans in Scottish wool. The Stilwater Kilt will let me see how I like wearing a 16oz wool kilt with a minimal outlay. As of now, I've only worn the Sport Kilt.

Thanks again for all the advice!

Dave

[jthk]

Hi Steve,

Thank you for the in-depth and clear explanation! I'm currently wearing a kilt that doesn't demonstrate the problem but I can "fake" it with the kilt I'm wearing now. I've attached a picture to indicate the problem -- the lower left-hand corner of the apron bends outward. This only happens one one or two of my kilts. I have pressed the bits in question and it's all good to go for a few wearings but then the issue crops up again.



What do you think? I thank you for sharing your expertise.

Jonathan

Without seeing a photo I am just guessing and can't diagnose your problem very well.

The shape of an apron is not a complex thing to explain. But to have one fit and hang well is not quite as easy to achieve.
Here are just a few the different parts that must be taken into consideration when shaping an apron.

The shape of an apron is not a trapezoid made up of straight lines unless the fabric the kilt is made from will not form complex shapes. For example Cotton fabrics.

Instead the shape starts up near where the upper strap is placed. It goes straight up from the top strap. This is the 'Rise" of the kilt.

The shape then flares out to the line of the hips.

Finally the shape tries to return to as close to vertical as possible.

It forms a gentle "S" curve.

But there is also the shape of the deep pleat that will often effect the apron. So please, post a pic.

[The Wizard of BC]

Would you try an experiment for me please?

Reach inside the kilt and find the inside crease of the deep pleat. This will be near the center of the inside of the outer apron.
You may have to lift the liner if there is one. Find where the inner crease is tucked into the waistbanding.

Gently lift up - as if the inner crease were tucked further up, into, the waistbanding. You don't have to pull much. Maybe 1/4".




Alternately you can pull and pin a small pucker into the creased edge.



See if the apron edge tries to tuck inward as you pull up on the inside crease.

[OC Richard]

One thing that I took for granted until I got a kilt that DIDN'T have it was the flare to the aprons.

I bought, to my regret, a relatively inexpensive machine-made kilt from a Scottish firm.

The fabric was true kilting cloth from an established weaver; the corners were cut in how the kilt was made.

The machine-stitched pleats were not too bad. The worst part was inexcusable- the aprons had no flare, so the sides hung straight down. Not until I saw how horrible this looked did I realise that all the kilts I had ever worn and seen had flared aprons.

When I took the Elsie Stuehmeyer kilt-making class I was amazed to see that she had no pattern for the curve of the apron, rather she marked it with chalk freehand. It was perfect of course; she's made kilts for over 50 years. (Steve has illustrated this curve in his post above.)

That's the thing: even with a man like me who has the same measurement for waist and hips, my properly-made kilts have a flare to the aprons.

Here- probably as finely-made kilt as there could be! You can see the flare to the front apron

[OC Richard]

It is the Weathered MacKenzie and the colors are perfect for fall and spring.

Congrats on your kilt! That's a beautiful tartan.

Perhaps due to the massive popularity of the TV show Outlander Weathered Colours are being seen more.

It's a trend I see beginning to get underway in the Pipe Band world, more bands turning to Weathered Colours and brown tweed waistcoats.

[RedBurbach]

Gents,

With regards to the front apron approximately how much should it 'curve around' or be in excess past your thighs? With regards to the flare of the apron, the SWK certainly has more fabric in the front apron than some of my knockabout kilts and I am just wondering if there is a standard on measurement and fit.

For instance, when standing and looking straight into a mirror should the front edges of the apron just evenly match up with the pleats on each side or should there be more coverage than that? On one of my kilts I have taken the buckles in so that it is smaller in the waist and now the front apron covers one of the right pleats (when looking down at it) and I like this look quite a bit.

For the left-hand side of the kilt, with knife pleating the pleats seem to want to 'open up' where they transition to the front apron. Is this normal or signs of less than optimal amounts of material being used?

[The Wizard of BC]

As I said before - Up at the level of the top strap, the width of the apron should be a little more than 1/2 of the waist circumference.
Down at the level of the hips, the width of the apron will be slightly less than 1/2 of the hip circumference.
How much this difference is down at the selvedge edge depends on the difference between the waist and hips. There is no set or 'standard' amount of flare.

But in the photo below you can see that the apron edge falls straight down from the hips along the line that would be the side seam of a pair of pants.

At the sides, the edges of the aprons should fall straight down and vertical. The apron edges should not splay open from the rest of the pleats. Not at all.
And the edges of the aprons should gently curve around the legs, not flip forward.




On the right side it is quite possible that the right edge of the outer apron overlaps the pleats. This is especially true of a kilt that has been made smaller.

The one thing that is very unsightly is when a kilt is too small and the outer apron does not fully overlap the under apron. Oh, an inch is OK as the under apron will just look like another pleat. But more than an inch and it quickly becomes very evident that the kilt is too small.

[OC Richard]

I know this thread isn't about historical kilts, but it is interesting to see how often Victorian kilts have narrower front aprons than modern kilts.

As Steve's photo shows, the front apron takes up around half the kilt's circumference.

But in Victorian photos the front aprons are narrower, the pleats coming around both sides:

[RedBurbach]

As I said before - Up at the level of the top strap, the width of the apron should be a little more than 1/2 of the waist circumference.
Down at the level of the hips, the width of the apron will be slightly less than 1/2 of the hip circumference.
How much this difference is down at the selvedge edge depends on the difference between the waist and hips. There is no set or 'standard' amount of flare.

But in the photo below you can see that the apron edge falls straight down from the hips along the line that would be the side seam of a pair of pants.

At the sides, the edges of the aprons should fall straight down and vertical. The apron edges should not splay open from the rest of the pleats. Not at all.
And the edges of the aprons should gently curve around the legs, not flip forward.

Thank you for explaining this, Steve. Re-reading your previous post I see where each of the measurements and ratios are applied. You state it perfectly with the idea of the apron being easy to explain, but nailing the fit is an entirely different thing!

I'd say that with the measurements I initially posted all of my kilts fall within the proportions that you describe, the main variance is the amount of 'flare.' It is very interesting how much this affects the look of the kilt. The SWK with the 23" hem width looks much different than the 20" width on my Blackwatch kilt.

Thank you again for the outpouring of knowledge. I'm really liking the large sett on the kilt you posted last. Which weathered tartan is that?

[jthk]

Steve,

As I followed your instructions this morning, I think this solved the problem. The kilt is a hand-made, 4-yard box pleat in 16 oz wool. I reached under the liner and brought that deep pleat a little further up, pinned it in place, and put the kilt on. The curl was gone! Now I need to determine how much to pull up before I put stitches in.

Thanks!
Jonathan

Would you try an experiment for me please?

Reach inside the kilt and find the inside crease of the deep pleat. This will be near the center of the inside of the outer apron.
You may have to lift the liner if there is one. Find where the inner crease is tucked into the waistbanding.

Gently lift up - as if the inner crease were tucked further up, into, the waistbanding. You don't have to pull much. Maybe 1/4".

Alternately you can pull and pin a small pucker into the creased edge.

See if the apron edge tries to tuck inward as you pull up on the inside crease.