Brown sporran with eveningwear?

[FossilHunter]

Depends on the context. What did the invitation stipulate? If they are showing up dressed contrary to the hosts desires, then yes, eject them, no different than being drunk and causing a disturbance. You are disrespecting the host by your choices, and should suffer the consequences.

If its public, and simply in poor taste, that person might not get an invitation to the next private event. Actions have consequences right? I don't care much for what the majority of society does anymore. They can all wear sandals, utilikilts and tye dye shirts if they want. Does not make them right by sheer numbers.

Is a brown doublet really out of the question though in highland dress?

I am aware of at least one Scottish lord who wears one in brown velvet. John Archibald Sinclair, 3rd Viscount Thurso, PC, known also as John Thurso:



We have to remember that the conventions for kilted highland black tie are not identical to Saxon black tie. Though there is overlap, things like colored jackets and brogued which are unacceptable with a tuxedo are traditional with a kilt even if they aren’t common today (jackets not brogues).

Of course we’re veering away from sporrans now.

[Padraicog]

Am. I color blind?

[Blaidd]

In the modern traditional Highland Dress as it's come down to us from the early 20th century, Evening sporrans "must" have silver fittings. Brass fittings and brown leather are 100% Day Dress, as is the brown fur.

I am following this thread with genuine interest. OCR, your comment above particularly caught my eye, because none of the 'official' Welsh Ysgrepans (sporrans) have any metal fittings at all (save for the clasp, and that is bronzed). Even the belt is a fancy plaited leather. They were originally shades of (very dark) brown/blood (new lines are predominantly black, admittedly). I accept that the 'traditions' of non-Scottish celtic nations' cilts are less.....proven of course.

An interesting topic either way.

[Highland Logan]

Is a brown doublet really out of the question though in highland dress?

I am aware of at least one Scottish lord who wears one in brown velvet. John Archibald Sinclair, 3rd Viscount Thurso, PC, known also as John Thurso:



We have to remember that the conventions for kilted highland black tie are not identical to Saxon black tie. Though there is overlap, things like colored jackets and brogued which are unacceptable with a tuxedo are traditional with a kilt even if they aren’t common today (jackets not brogues).

Of course we’re veering away from sporrans now.

I'm sure that's green.. which along with blue, black and burgundy are traditional evening jacket colours. Of course, there is always tartan!

Frank

[FossilHunter]

I'm sure that's green.. which along with blue, black and burgundy are traditional evening jacket colours. Of course, there is always tartan!

Frank

You may be right. This is the one I was thinking of.



The buttons are clearly different so it’s a different doublet. Same man though.

This was discussed here before in this thread:

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...30/index2.html

[FossilHunter]

Am. I color blind?

No it’s my fault. The color wasn't clear to me on my phone in the sun. It’s clearly green looking at it now. The brown doublet is actually in a different photo of lord Thurso.

[Luke MacGillie]

I have a hard time accepting anything other than black for evening wear. I'd love to have a red based tartan jacket and waistcoat, over a blue/green kilt. Or a red, with blue or buff cuffs, or better yet, a blue with red cuffs, all these are garments that I wear when reenacting. But we are talking modern national dress. The other colour jackets are far from common, and it would seem that are worn by people who have been doing this long enough to be allowed to break the rules? One needs years of doing it in the accepted method before they can just strike out and do their own thing Right?

Reminds me of Boy Scout Indian dancing as a child. One of our leaders told the story about how an actual native could get away with using a fuller brush as a roach, as it was their culture, and they could do what they want. But no Boy Scout could do that, it had to be perfect reproductions to show the honor to the culture. Perhaps that colours my feelings.

[Highland Logan]

Well I can't agree on the black jacket only Luke, I can respect your opinion. Myself, I do tend to honour the more traditional, and revel in the diversity that only Scottish dress can offer. However I do stay within the traditional. I have my own style or flair, but it does stay in the lanes, as it were.

As I have stated in the past, keeping in the spirit of the National*dress, a quote that those that "... deprive the garb of its ornaments or reduce it to the drab monotony of Anglo-Saxon evening clothes are un-Scottish and*contemptible".

I respect your choice, and I would never take that from you, or any man, as such I do have my own opinions as well.

Frank

[Jock Scot]

Is a brown doublet really out of the question though in highland dress?

I am aware of at least one Scottish lord who wears one in brown velvet. John Archibald Sinclair, 3rd Viscount Thurso, PC, known also as John Thurso:



We have to remember that the conventions for kilted highland black tie are not identical to Saxon black tie. Though there is overlap, things like colored jackets and brogued which are unacceptable with a tuxedo are traditional with a kilt even if they aren’t common today (jackets not brogues).

Of course we’re veering away from sporrans now.

An interesting thread---------but.

In my youth a plain and I repeat plain, fur full mask sporran, that was often an otter or Scottish wild cat skin and therefore brown was the predominant colour and was often the do-it-all sporran for all events including a formal event. Times have changed, wildlife protection, cost, and fashion have been the main drivers of this change plus one other reason..... Ignorance of what should be worn, when and by whom.

Tartan kilt jackets, velvet jackets of many hues and so on can be worn at the right occasion, but not all and using pictures out of context that "prove" that it can be done, therefore everyone all the time can do the same. WRONG!

Not all kilted black tie events are the same, particularly as Saxon attire conventions and kilt attire conventions, at the higher end of formal attire, do not march in step. Coloured velvet kilt jackets and tartan kilt jackets fit in well with the rare high end of formal events. Also, at a more minor event these high end jackets might be worn by the "main man"(like Lord Thurso) who is at the event to make a speech and perhaps hand out some sort of award. I suspect that if Lord Thurso was attending as a mere guest his outfit may not be of such high profile. So for the more normal black tie event these fancy kilt jackets will and do shout "look at me!" and the experienced observer will think "what a prat".

The old adage of " just because I can, does not necessarily mean that I should" is never more relevant in this discussion at the moment.

[kiltedsawyer]

This thread reminds my of something I heard George Gobel say on the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson;

"Did you ever get the feeling the world was tuxedo and you were a pair of brown shoes?"

Cheers,
David