Front apron left pleat not laying flat

**Pleater** · 19th February 20, 10:45 AM

Oh dear - the kilt as corset - it must put a lot of strain on everything.

My name of Pleater is not from kilt making but from English smocks. The way they are gathered and then decorated and the gathering threads released gives a lot of elasticity to the garment at a time when elastic was not yet available.

Looking again at the photos in the OP - it isn't really possible to make out the outline of the kilt - if the turning out of the pleat and the bulge in the apron is because the garment as a whole is 'skimpit' then it is a fitting problem rather than shaping.

**Dreaghann** · 20th February 20, 05:44 PM

Originally Posted by Pleater

Looking again at the photos in the OP - it isn't really possible to make out the outline of the kilt - if the turning out of the pleat and the bulge in the apron is because the garment as a whole is 'skimpit' then it is a fitting problem rather than shaping.

Here are photos of the whole kilt on. Is the kilt the wrong size? Poorly made? I'd really appreciate your candid opinion so that I can avoid making any mistakes (and wasting money) in ordering kilts in the future. Please be assured that I won't blame you for mine or the maker's mistakes. What's your diagnosis, Doctor?

**Steve Ashton** · 20th February 20, 06:34 PM

OK, first off you are not wearing this kilt the way it was designed to be worn.

All of the iconic kilts are designed to be worn much higher. A kilt is one of the very few garments designed in a time when men wore their trousers at the anatomical waist.

Unfortunately the kilt is one of those garments where the wearer must adapt to the design of the garment. This is one of the times when the garment does not adapt to the wearers preference.

The top strap would be cinched in just under the ribs. The two inches of kilt above the top strap will cover the bottom of the short ribs in back and in front it will be about 3-4 fingers below the bottom of the breastbone.

Reach around in back and find the bottom of where the pleats are sewn down. That should be right at the widest part of the hips or butt. Approximately where your hip joint is.

And the bottom selvedge edge of the kilt should be just at the top of the knee cap.

**Dreaghann** · 20th February 20, 08:01 PM

Originally Posted by Steve Ashton

The top strap would be cinched in just under the ribs. The two inches of kilt above the top strap will cover the bottom of the short ribs in back and in front it will be about 3-4 fingers below the bottom of the breastbone.

Thank you for your reply.

So here it is with the top strap cinched at the natural waist and the rise over the ribs. Setting aside the fact that the selvedge is too high above the kneecap, you'll notice that the front apron pleat still kicks out. Is the waist or seat size wrong? In the future do I need to specify a larger seat? Or should I just avoid ordering kilts from this maker?

**Steve Ashton** · 20th February 20, 10:54 PM

Just one more note when you wear the kilt the next time.

The left side lower strap is totally decorative. Fasten it very loosely. If you look at the fourth photo you posted you will see the stress and distortion on the fabric from this strap being tightened way too much.

**Dreaghann** · 21st February 20, 03:14 AM

Originally Posted by Steve Ashton

Just one more note when you wear the kilt the next time.

The left side lower strap is totally decorative. Fasten it very loosely. If you look at the fourth photo you posted you will see the stress and distortion on the fabric from this strap being tightened way too much.

Thank you. Will do.

Can I take that to mean that (provided I do not overtighten the lower strap) the waist and seat size are appropriately fit to my body and not causing the apron kick out?

**Tobus** · 21st February 20, 06:37 AM

It still appears to me in your most recent photos that it's not being worn at your natural waist. If you put your hands on the sides of your torso and push in just where your rib cage drops off, that's where the top buckles of the kilt should be (not the top band of the kilt).

**Barb T** · 21st February 20, 08:39 AM

Even though you say you have it buckled high enough, it still does not look to me like the buckles are at your true waist. The top of the kilt should be 2" above your true waist (not 2" above where you wear your jeans, but 2" above your true waist). That would put the bottom of the fell (the stitched part of the pleats) at the widest part of your buttocks. Where you're wearing the kilt in the pics, the bottom of the fell is about 2" below that, which is one reason why the back looks so odd. That contributes to the "wave" (i.e., the pleats aren't lying flat), although it may be that there's too much in the pleats at the hips and not enough in the apron (i.e., the splits might be off, but it's hard to tell with the kilt not sitting at the right height).

Having said all that, wearing a kilt at the proper height requires that the kilt flares above the buckle line - this allows you to buckle the kilt tightly at the waist and have the kilt actually stay there. It looks to me like your kilt tapers all the way to the top of the rise (i.e., it's smallest around at the top of the kilt, not at the buckle line). If that's true, it will be impossible to buckle the kilt tightly at your true waist and have it stay there. So you might not actually be able to keep it at the right height.

Realize that the hip buckle is purely decorative and doesn't do anything to hold the kilt on. If you buckle the hip buckle tightly, it pull across the front of the kilt. So, when you put your kilt on, don't buckle the hip buckle tightly - buckle it so that the apron of the kilt hangs as it would if there were no buckle there. Also, the hip buckle also seems low to me, although it might just be because the kilt is too low.

I would also not likely put as much flare in the apron edge, and I would curve it more so that, at the bottom edge, it's not pointy.

Oops - sorry for duplication on some of the of ideas - I missed Steve's and Tobus' posts when I wrote the above.

**MichiganKyle** · 21st February 20, 10:08 AM

I just wanted to chime in and say: I'm finding the information in this thread phenomenally interesting. I wish I had known some of this before I'd bought my first kilt (and, really, my second one as well). There's a huge difference in fit between very small size differences in a kilt, and the pointers in this thread give a lot of insight into why.

Nothing meaningful I can contribute to this, but please by all means keep expanding on this subject. I have Barb's book and have found it wonderful as well, but every time this stuff's explained, it's explained in different ways and helps to actually understand the "why"s. It's really valuable information for those of us with no clue about textiles and garment construction.

**Dreaghann** · 21st February 20, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by Tobus

It still appears to me in your most recent photos that it's not being worn at your natural waist. If you put your hands on the sides of your torso and push in just where your rib cage drops off, that's where the top buckles of the kilt should be (not the top band of the kilt).

Originally Posted by Barb T

Even though you say you have it buckled high enough, it still does not look to me like the buckles are at your true waist. The top of the kilt should be 2" above your true waist (not 2" above where you wear your jeans, but 2" above your true waist). That would put the bottom of the fell (the stitched part of the pleats) at the widest part of your buttocks. Where you're wearing the kilt in the pics, the bottom of the fell is about 2" below that, which is one reason why the back looks so odd. That contributes to the "wave" (i.e., the pleats aren't lying flat), although it may be that there's too much in the pleats at the hips and not enough in the apron (i.e., the splits might be off, but it's hard to tell with the kilt not sitting at the right height).

Thank you both for your replies and for continuing to help me with this. I'm very grateful.

I was fairly certain that the top buckles were cinched in tightly just below my ribcage and above the hip bone at the fleshy part on the side where one can push in, but just to be sure, I've taken photos again. I cinched in the top buckle as far as it could possibly go with no remaining holes in the strap. Has it made a difference?

Looking at the pictures of the kilt as advertised it's difficult to see whether flare in the rise above the top buckles is part of the design because of the jackets the model is wearing, but you can see the same model wearing (presumably) the same kilt without a jacket 5 min. 35 sec. into this video on how to wear a kilt: https://youtu.be/50rEIHC6lB0?t=335 To my eye it appears that there is no flare.

Regarding the apron kick out, at the 6:00 mark of the video (https://youtu.be/50rEIHC6lB0?t=360), there doesn't appear to be any kick out in the model's kilt. I am no where near as muscular as the model, so perhaps that is part of the issue (although it should have been obvious to the maker from my waist, seat, and height measurements that I am no rugby player). At the 4:14 mark (https://youtu.be/50rEIHC6lB0?t=245), it's just barely possible to see the depth of the apron pleat as the model begins to wrap the kilt. It seems to be about the same depth as the other pleats.

Of course, one day, I would like to be able to visit a kilt maker in person for a bespoke kilt, but for the time being, I'm limited to mail ordering given my geographic location (Tokyo). Any advice you could offer would be much appreciated.