Weathered Tartans

[OC Richard]

Sorry to dredge up this thread, but I was going through old catalogues and such and I found a pamphlet by D C Dalgliesh LTD titled The Story Of Reproduction Tartans.

It gives more details about the story seen on their website about how their Reproduction Colour scheme came about:

The story of Reproduction Tartans is the tale of two fragments, the first a piece of cloth no larger than a table napkin, the other a vital nine months in the history of Scotland.

It began in the autumn of 1946 when a peat-gatherer seeking fuel on Culloden Moor dug out an old piece of cloth, which after the most searching examination proved to be a MacDonald tartan. The colours and sett were noted to be somewhat different to that in vogue but this was hardly surprising when it was decided that this piece of cloth was certainly 200 years old. It may have well been worn by a MacDonald then fighting in defence of Prince Charles Edward Stuart, in his quest for the throne of Great Britain.

(Then follows four paragraphs telling the story of the 1745 rebellion.)

Judge then the importance of the peat-gatherer's find and with what care it was cherished. Here indeed was the key to much lost and sketchy knowledge and to D C Dalgliesh, who obtained this piece of cloth on loan, among conditions laid down were two, namely that it be insured for 2,000 pounds and that it be lodged nightly locked in a safe.

Patient and intensive research into colours, sett, and weave followed, and as a result D C Dalgliesh LTD have produced a range of Reproduction Tartans which are authentic in colour and design to those worn in 1745 and before.

Woven in pure wool, the colourings of these tartans offer a soft muted effect entirely reminiscent of the days when vegetable sources such as lichen, moss, and alder bark provided the dyer with his raw materials.

[GlenaladalePiper]

I wonder which MacDonald tartan it was. I descend from the Glenaladale MacDonald’s who are a cadet of Clanranald. It’s believed that Alexander MacDonald 6th Laird of Glenaladale wore the tartan while he fought with Prince Charlie. A fragment of this tartan came to Prince Edward Island in 1772. Long story short, a cousin of mine talked with Peter MacDonald and he reveawed the tartan. You can see some of the tartan on my profile. It’s a beautiful red and an asymmetrical tartan. Not sure if this might have been part of the tartan the farmer found or not.

[FossilHunter]

I wonder which MacDonald tartan it was. I descend from the Glenaladale MacDonald’s who are a cadet of Clanranald. It’s believed that Alexander MacDonald 6th Laird of Glenaladale wore the tartan while he fought with Prince Charlie. A fragment of this tartan came to Prince Edward Island in 1772. Long story short, a cousin of mine talked with Peter MacDonald and he reveawed the tartan. You can see some of the tartan on my profile. It’s a beautiful red and an asymmetrical tartan. Not sure if this might have been part of the tartan the farmer found or not.

It really is a beautiful tartan.

[figheadair]

I wonder which MacDonald tartan it was. I descend from the Glenaladale MacDonald’s who are a cadet of Clanranald. It’s believed that Alexander MacDonald 6th Laird of Glenaladale wore the tartan while he fought with Prince Charlie. A fragment of this tartan came to Prince Edward Island in 1772. Long story short, a cousin of mine talked with Peter MacDonald and he reveawed the tartan. You can see some of the tartan on my profile. It’s a beautiful red and an asymmetrical tartan. Not sure if this might have been part of the tartan the farmer found or not.

The Glenaladale was certainly not the alleged piece from Culloden as it hadn't been rediscovered by 1946.

When the Glenaladale tartan was first reproduced, in the 1970s, it was an asymmetric pattern based on the fragment but that is now shown to be an incorrect interpretation, the pattern is symmetrical - MacDonald of Glenaladale

[figheadair]

Sorry to dredge up this thread, but I was going through old catalogues and such and I found a pamphlet by D C Dalgliesh LTD titled The Story Of Reproduction Tartans.

It gives more details about the story seen on their website about how their Reproduction Colour scheme came about:

The story of Reproduction Tartans is the tale of two fragments, the first a piece of cloth no larger than a table napkin, the other a vital nine months in the history of Scotland.

It began in the autumn of 1946 when a peat-gatherer seeking fuel on Culloden Moor dug out an old piece of cloth, which after the most searching examination proved to be a MacDonald tartan. The colours and sett were noted to be somewhat different to that in vogue but this was hardly surprising when it was decided that this piece of cloth was certainly 200 years old. It may have well been worn by a MacDonald then fighting in defence of Prince Charles Edward Stuart, in his quest for the throne of Great Britain.

(Then follows four paragraphs telling the story of the 1745 rebellion.)

Judge then the importance of the peat-gatherer's find and with what care it was cherished. Here indeed was the key to much lost and sketchy knowledge and to D C Dalgliesh, who obtained this piece of cloth on loan, among conditions laid down were two, namely that it be insured for 2,000 pounds and that it be lodged nightly locked in a safe.

Patient and intensive research into colours, sett, and weave followed, and as a result D C Dalgliesh LTD have produced a range of Reproduction Tartans which are authentic in colour and design to those worn in 1745 and before.

Woven in pure wool, the colourings of these tartans offer a soft muted effect entirely reminiscent of the days when vegetable sources such as lichen, moss, and alder bark provided the dyer with his raw materials.

I'd be happy to be proved wrong but this is just more marketing nonsense in my opinion. Where is this piece, what made it a MacDonald tartan, who decided that the piece of cloth was certainly 200 years old? No museum or academic of the time examined this tartan so the whole claim needs to be regarded with extreme caution.

[Jock Scot]

I'd be happy to be proved wrong but this is just more marketing nonsense in my opinion. Where is this piece, what made it a MacDonald tartan, who decided that the piece of cloth was certainly 200 years old? No museum or academic of the time examined this tartan so the whole claim needs to be regarded with extreme caution.

Rightly or wrongly, I think most of us in Scotland who have a modest interest in tartans think along these lines.

[OC Richard]

I'd be happy to be proved wrong but this is just more marketing nonsense in my opinion. Where is this piece, what made it a MacDonald tartan, who decided that the piece of cloth was certainly 200 years old? No museum or academic of the time examined this tartan so the whole claim needs to be regarded with extreme caution.

I agree with your assessment; that Dalgliesh pamphlet should be taken with extreme caution, or as they say here



I scanned the pamphlet, it's just the cover and two inside pages.

As you can see it's implying that the pre-proscription colours and weaving techniques would have been lost if not for this precious fragment (paragraphs 7 and 8). Note that Dalgliesh had the fragment on loan. The owner isn't mentioned.

[figheadair]

I agree with your assessment; that Dalgliesh pamphlet should be taken with extreme caution, or as they say here

I scanned the pamphlet, it's just the cover and two inside pages.

As you can see it's implying that the pre-proscription colours and weaving techniques would have been lost if not for this precious fragment (paragraphs 7 and 8). Note that Dalgliesh had the fragment on loan. The owner isn't mentioned.

And then of course there are the incorrect statements that; the Scots defeated the English at Prestonpans, that Proscription banned the making or wearing Tartan clothes (making tartan clothes was never banned, and the ban on wearing them only applied to men and boy, other than those in the army), and that tartans of the 18th century were coloured with local vegetable dyestuffs. Judge the whole story in the light of these 'truths' and it is entirely wanting.

[GlenaladalePiper]

Figheadair-Yes, I had mistaken the original Glenaladale tartan for being asymmetrical. Before I got the tartan from you I was trying to show my kilt maker pictures of it and I think he and I got confused with the reproduction from the 1970s and he said it seemed to be asymmetrical. When we sent him the “real tartan” he realized it was symmetrical, I just forgot that part

As to me wondering if it was also a segment discovered at Culloden in 1946, that was just a thought. I knew the segment was on PEI. Guess I was just wondering about if fragments had ever been found near Culloden.

What bothers me, as a descendant and also historically, is that I’ve tried to educate people about the proper tartan but it falls on deaf ears. There is a certain highland outfitter who despite me telling them otherwise, still call the tartan MacDonald of Glendale. It’s the 1970s reproduction that they sell anyway, but still. Then, there’s a pipe band in Ontario that uses the reproduction tartan and on their webpage talk about the fragment being found in St. Peter’s Rome and that Major Alexander MacDonald came to “Canada”. Which to someone from PEI seems to sound as if they’re forgetting PEI. I’ve emailed them to tell them that with certainty my grand uncle Major Alexander never made it across the water as he was long dead by the time his son Captain John made it to Price Edward Island in 1772. And that the tartan was found near St. Peter’s, Prince Edward Island, very close to where the ship the Alexander made port.

I know I’ve thanked you before, but thank you again Peter for weaving the Glenaladale tartan. It is the most beautiful tartan in my mind. For myself and Mary both being descendants and board members for the Glenaladale estate we’re so very much proud to wear it.

Despite what’s going on right now throughout the world, we’re still planning for our 250th anniversary in 2022.

[OC Richard]

It must be frustrating dealing with such persistent misinformation. Strange how strong stuff like that is sometimes, and so hard to quash.

As I mentioned before I've been on a bit of a quest for years trying to fight the misinformation about the pipes. But the myths can't be suppressed.

MacDonald of Glendale.

Well we have a Glendale here in Southern California that used to have a pipe band, and there's a Glendale in Arizona that still has a pipe band, so there's a potential market for a Glendale tartan

Found them https://glendalepipeband.org/