Weathered Tartans

[OC Richard]

I'd be happy to be proved wrong but this is just more marketing nonsense in my opinion. Where is this piece, what made it a MacDonald tartan, who decided that the piece of cloth was certainly 200 years old? No museum or academic of the time examined this tartan so the whole claim needs to be regarded with extreme caution.

I agree with your assessment; that Dalgliesh pamphlet should be taken with extreme caution, or as they say here



I scanned the pamphlet, it's just the cover and two inside pages.

As you can see it's implying that the pre-proscription colours and weaving techniques would have been lost if not for this precious fragment (paragraphs 7 and 8). Note that Dalgliesh had the fragment on loan. The owner isn't mentioned.

[OC Richard]

I'd be happy to be proved wrong but this is just more marketing nonsense in my opinion. Where is this piece, what made it a MacDonald tartan, who decided that the piece of cloth was certainly 200 years old? No museum or academic of the time examined this tartan so the whole claim needs to be regarded with extreme caution.

I can fully relate because I have personally experienced the same thing regarding the West Virginia tartan.

I was at the West Virginia Highland Games several years ago and there was a big rollout of the newly-woven Official West Virginia State Tartan.

It had been approved by the State legislature.

Tartan organisations in Scotland have the thread-count https://www.tartanregister.gov.uk/ta...tails?ref=5649

It is said to be based on a 200-hundred-year-old shawl brought from Scotland by a family who immigrated to West Virginia. This shawl is said to be on display in the DAR Museum in Barboursville.

Being that I visit my family in West Virginia regularly, and they live only a few miles from Barboursville, I decided to contact the Barboursville Chapter of the DAR and arrange a visit to examine this shawl in person. (The "museum" doesn't have regular hours, and is a small historic building where the monthly DAR Chapter meetings take place.)

Imagine my surprise when I get a response to my email from a member of the Chapter, who has been in the "museum" (a room with some antiques and artifacts) on a regular basis for over 20 years, who has never seen or heard of such a shawl. I was also unable to get permission to enter the building to take a look-see for myself.

Which all is a pity. The pattern itself is quite nice

[figheadair]

I agree with your assessment; that Dalgliesh pamphlet should be taken with extreme caution, or as they say here

I scanned the pamphlet, it's just the cover and two inside pages.

As you can see it's implying that the pre-proscription colours and weaving techniques would have been lost if not for this precious fragment (paragraphs 7 and 8). Note that Dalgliesh had the fragment on loan. The owner isn't mentioned.

And then of course there are the incorrect statements that; the Scots defeated the English at Prestonpans, that Proscription banned the making or wearing Tartan clothes (making tartan clothes was never banned, and the ban on wearing them only applied to men and boy, other than those in the army), and that tartans of the 18th century were coloured with local vegetable dyestuffs. Judge the whole story in the light of these 'truths' and it is entirely wanting.

[GlenaladalePiper]

Figheadair-Yes, I had mistaken the original Glenaladale tartan for being asymmetrical. Before I got the tartan from you I was trying to show my kilt maker pictures of it and I think he and I got confused with the reproduction from the 1970s and he said it seemed to be asymmetrical. When we sent him the “real tartan” he realized it was symmetrical, I just forgot that part

As to me wondering if it was also a segment discovered at Culloden in 1946, that was just a thought. I knew the segment was on PEI. Guess I was just wondering about if fragments had ever been found near Culloden.

What bothers me, as a descendant and also historically, is that I’ve tried to educate people about the proper tartan but it falls on deaf ears. There is a certain highland outfitter who despite me telling them otherwise, still call the tartan MacDonald of Glendale. It’s the 1970s reproduction that they sell anyway, but still. Then, there’s a pipe band in Ontario that uses the reproduction tartan and on their webpage talk about the fragment being found in St. Peter’s Rome and that Major Alexander MacDonald came to “Canada”. Which to someone from PEI seems to sound as if they’re forgetting PEI. I’ve emailed them to tell them that with certainty my grand uncle Major Alexander never made it across the water as he was long dead by the time his son Captain John made it to Price Edward Island in 1772. And that the tartan was found near St. Peter’s, Prince Edward Island, very close to where the ship the Alexander made port.

I know I’ve thanked you before, but thank you again Peter for weaving the Glenaladale tartan. It is the most beautiful tartan in my mind. For myself and Mary both being descendants and board members for the Glenaladale estate we’re so very much proud to wear it.

Despite what’s going on right now throughout the world, we’re still planning for our 250th anniversary in 2022.

[OC Richard]

It must be frustrating dealing with such persistent misinformation. Strange how strong stuff like that is sometimes, and so hard to quash.

As I mentioned before I've been on a bit of a quest for years trying to fight the misinformation about the pipes. But the myths can't be suppressed.

MacDonald of Glendale.

Well we have a Glendale here in Southern California that used to have a pipe band, and there's a Glendale in Arizona that still has a pipe band, so there's a potential market for a Glendale tartan

Found them https://glendalepipeband.org/

[ThistleDown]

I'd be happy to be proved wrong but this is just more marketing nonsense in my opinion. Where is this piece, what made it a MacDonald tartan, who decided that the piece of cloth was certainly 200 years old? No museum or academic of the time examined this tartan so the whole claim needs to be regarded with extreme caution.

Marketing nonsense, perhaps, Peter, but today it seems to fall on us to prove innocence as as much as guilt. In an earlier post in this thread I said that I recalled Kenny Dalgleish telling me that Dalgleish's reproduction tartan line was geared to marketing for the future. His firm was successful in that and whole new range of colourways evolved and was picked up by many weavers in Scotland. Good on them!

I am sure you will agree that we must not be too precious in all of this.

[figheadair]

Despite what’s going on right now throughout the world, we’re still planning for our 250th anniversary in 2022.

Angela, yes, hoping to be able to come over and join you all.

[figheadair]

Marketing nonsense, perhaps, Peter, but today it seems to fall on us to prove innocence as as much as guilt. In an earlier post in this thread I said that I recalled Kenny Dalgleish telling me that Dalgleish's reproduction tartan line was geared to marketing for the future. His firm was successful in that and whole new range of colourways evolved and was picked up by many weavers in Scotland. Good on them!

I am sure you will agree that we must not be too precious in all of this.

Actually, I don't agree. My interest is principally about the preservation of the truth for future generations. I have lost count of the times that this 'myth' has been presented to me as 'historical fact'. Good for Dalgliesh making something that people like and purchased to the benefit of the Scottish economy, less so nowadays as others weave it, but as far as I'm concerned it belongs in the same box as Outlander.

[Jock Scot]

Actually, I don't agree. My interest is principally about the preservation of the truth for future generations. I have lost count of the times that this 'myth' has been presented to me as 'historical fact'. Good for Dalgliesh making something that people like and purchased to the benefit of the Scottish economy, less so nowadays as others weave it, but as far as I'm concerned it belongs in the same box as Outlander.

Out of interest, should we include the dubious works of the Allen brothers in the same "box" as Outlander as well? I think probably we should.

However, we appear to have mostly come to terms with that collection of figments of imagination from "the brothers". After all, someone had to design the tartans even with few questions being asked then, or now and those tartan inventions just like the later "weathered" tartans appear to have been accepted by the public at large quite readily. Nevertheless, yes, the truth does need recording by the academics for future reference, even if most of us lesser mortals carry on regardless.

[OC Richard]

My interest is principally about the preservation of the truth for future generations. I have lost count of the times that this 'myth' has been presented to me as 'historical fact'. Good for Dalgliesh making something that people like and purchased to the benefit of the Scottish economy, less so nowadays as others weave it, but as far as I'm concerned it belongs in the same box as Outlander.

Exactly the same box, because as we have seen Outlander put all of their 18th century Highlanders in Dalgliesh's 1940's colour scheme.

Well, they're only off by two centuries...near enough, by Hollywood standards.

Yes good for Dalgliesh to have come up with a very popular and marketable colour-scheme.

Interesting to note the contrast in marketing approach when House Of Edgar introduced their lovely and popular Muted Colours Range which as far as I know was advertised simply as an alternate colour-choice.