my mocker

[macwilkin]

Martin, on p. 29 of "All about your kilt" (I'm paraphrasing, btw) states that it is possible to wear a "hounds-tooth [day] jacket, a tattersall-checked shirt, and regimental stripe tie, whilst an American will usually wear solid-colour accesories with the kilt."

Martin then goes on to state the key to mixing patterns and colours is toning -- as long as the patterns and colours "tone" with each other, then there is no clashing. Size of the pattern also matters; a tattersall or Glen Plaid dress shirt, for instance, must have a smaller pattern than the the tartan itself.

Bottom line: like so many other ways to wear the kilt, it is really up to individual style.

Cheers,

T.

[Hamish]

OK chaps! Let this matter not come to a display of fisticuffs!

I have been asked for my opinion - and this is it:

As we all know, there are NO hard and fast rules laid down as to what may or may not be worn with what. There are, however, unwritten 'rules' of dress etiquette, particularly when it comes to formal evening, or full Highland dress - but that, as I understand it, is not in question here. What seems to be in dispute is whether it is the 'done thing' to wear patterned shirts/contrasting tartans with your tartan kilt.

Basically, it is a matter of good taste, or aesthetics. To anyone with a keen eye for what looks right, a tartan (any tartan) can only be set-off, or shown to advantage, by a plain, self-coloured shirt, jacket or sweater - and the colour should compliment, match or be a paler version of one of the colours in the tartan. Preferably, one of the less obvious colours. The kilt itself should be the focus of attention and should not have to vie with anything else.

You should, perhaps, bear in mind that I am seeing all this from a British point of view, and therefore am biased by our traditions. With the greatest respect, the majority of my American brothers seem to relish the prospect of breaking from those traditions and frequently exhibit total disregard for the niceties of good taste - or, at the very least, insist on making a personal statement by their choice of colours and patterns when traditionally kilted in tartan. "This is me. I'll do it my way, and no-one's goin' to tell me otherwise!" Well, you can't always take that selfish attitude. We should all have consideration for others, especially those we are likely to meet.

Personally, I would only ever wear a patterned shirt with a plain, self-coloured kilt; at all other times (ie: when wearing a tartan kilt) I will wear a plain shirt, jacket or sweater. The same applies to my ties, with the exception of crested, clan ties. Even ties matching an identical tartan kilt are, as far as I am concerned, an abomination. It is all a matter of good taste and not offending the eye.

As for the reference to old prints depicting Highlanders sporting two or more tartans together: I would be inclined to think that, in those days, there simply was not the same clothing choice as we have today. A gentleman's wardrobe would have been limited and he would wear whatever was to hand, or he might possibly have been showing his allegiance to more than one clan or family - without giving any thought, from an aesthetic point of view, to how he actually appeared to others.

I know I am not explaining myself at all well here, and for that I apologise (I am extremely tired this evening), but to sum up: Tartan is a gorgeous and a complex pattern. It should stand alone to be seen at its best, and to be admired. Tartan should not have to compete with any other patterns, whether they be Hawaiian prints, polka dots, zig-zags, stripes - or a second tartan!

Just my opinion.......................!

[Rigged]

While my fashion sense comes from watching old Viking movies, I have to agree that it's garish to wear patterns over tartans.

Although, I can think of a recent party where such garishness would have been entirely appropriate since the theme of the occassion was to be entirely inappropriately dressed.

In that case, a hawaiian shirt with a Royal Stewart tartan kilt, striped hose, and sneakers with brightly-colored laces would have fit the bill nicely.

Anyway, I try to make my clothes match. BTW, is it legal to wear a Viking sword in public -- on the train -- in California?

[Mike n NC]

Thank you Ham! I believe you and I are near in age and seem to have been raised up in approximatly the same fashion sense. Tartan basicly a plaid and as such bears no other pattern well.

With this discussion, I was having flashbacks of the 60's with the madris plaid trousers and tie dyed shirts. Owwww, now my eyeballs hurt.

Mike

[Riverkilt]

"As long as my life is diverse, so will my kilt collection be."



Well said Jimmy.

That's exactly why my kilt money is so spread out. I love the choices.

But, Baldhead, being a carpenter, you GOTTA try a workman's.

(yes, had a carpenter's card in my youth so know a bit about the trade)

Ron

[macwilkin]

Basically, it is a matter of good taste, or aesthetics. To anyone with a keen eye for what looks right, a tartan (any tartan) can only be set-off, or shown to advantage, by a plain, self-coloured shirt, jacket or sweater - and the colour should compliment, match or be a paler version of one of the colours in the tartan. Preferably, one of the less obvious colours. The kilt itself should be the focus of attention and should not have to vie with anything else.

Hamish,

That was the point I was making -- my glen plaid shirt that I wear is a very pale blue with a very light pattern; the pale blue matches a line of pale blue running through my kilt, and you can barely see the pattern -- the pattern does not interfere with the tartan in the kilt. I'm not suggesting that anyone wear an extremely loud pattern.

If you look at the picture in my gallery of my day attire, you can't even tell that the shirt is glen plaid -- it looks like a light blue shirt.

I can't find a photo of him at the moment, but I know that HRH Prince Charles does wear a tattersall shirt with a regimental tie with his kilt on occasion, and I can't imagine anyone telling him he is wrong! :mrgreen:

This has become a "tempest in a tea cup", and I apologise for my part in starting it. I am not attempting to ignore tradition; far from it. I respect your opinions greatly, Hamish, as you are the epitome of a gentleman, and I would not want you to think less of me.

Cheers,

T.

[Ugly Bear]

This has become a "tempest in a tea cup", and I apologise for my part in starting it.

Oh, man. Don't apologize for airing your views on the topic at hand. (As long as you don't go ad homenim, no one here should complain.) We're here to exchange ideas, not to agree.

Tempest is my favorite kind of tea. Drink up.

[Mike n NC]

Tempest is my favorite kind of tea. Drink up.

Cream or lemmon? One lump or two?

This has become a "tempest in a tea cup", and I apologise for my part in starting it. I am not attempting to ignore tradition; far from it. I respect your opinions greatly, Hamish, as you are the epitome of a gentleman, and I would not want you to think less of me.

Speaking only for myself; I was brought up by a gentleman with a very strong fashion sense and in that have formed some very strong opinions and I've never been shy about expressing them.
I think my saying of wear what ya like, like what ya wear fits in here very well. Just warn me if ya get to bold so I have time to reach for the sunglasses. 8)

Besides, you know the old saying about opinions, right?

Mike

[Jimmy Carbomb]

With the greatest respect, the majority of my American brothers seem to relish the prospect of breaking from those traditions and frequently exhibit total disregard for the niceties of good taste - or, at the very least, insist on making a personal statement by their choice of colours and patterns when traditionally kilted in tartan. "This is me. I'll do it my way, and no-one's goin' to tell me otherwise!" Well, you can't always take that selfish attitude. We should all have consideration for others, especially those we are likely to meet.

AMEN, brother!

I know there's times and places for everything, but that's a HUGE thorn in the paw of the community. At times, and in certain instances, it makes the kilted community look ridiculous. That's not helping the "cause" at all!

I guess that cuts to the point on all the posts about kilt types, tartan choices and knowing what you're doing. There's nothing like an informed and educated choice with kilts. Unfortunately, you're still left to rely on the individual's character to follow through with the "proper" course.

I have yet to make one kilt decision through peer pressure, or "acceptance" of a poor choice on my part. It always comes down to respecting the traditions, knowing the heritage, and finding my preferences in what's available. That sure makes this whole lifestyle a lot more fun!

[Ugly Bear]

I think my saying of wear what ya like, like what ya wear fits in here very well. Just warn me if ya get to bold so I have time to reach for the sunglasses.

Time to be blunt. I side with Jimmy and Hamish here. It is not okay to just wear what you want. Making people reach for their sunglasses is unkind. Wearing clothes that smother the person inside does a disservice to onesself. The more we talk about "wear what you want," the more likely we are to start using the F-word here -- no, not THAT F-word ... I'm talking about F*******ing. I'm not going to have this forum dragged down there.

On that note, telling the gullible that they can, for example, mix checks with plaids is just mean. It's like ... I dunno, it's like telling the kids you're going out for ice cream, then driving them to the dentist instead once they're in the car. The hapless who are made to believe that there are no rules wind up on shows like "What Not To Wear" (TLC & BBC).

So I will not concede the point just to be polite. I will continue to step on people's toes, whether I'm wearing brogues or steel-toed boots. Keep that Tempest-brand tea coming.

Cream or lemmon? One lump or two?

No cream, no lemon, no sugar. Hot or cold, as long as it's brewed strong.

Besides, you know the old saying about opinions, right?

Yes, I know what opinions are like. Except that people should not unconditionally hide their opinions.