Thoughts on materials....

[Scotlad45]

I'm sure this has been addressed before, however, I wasn't able to dig up anything of use.
My current kilts are at the extremes- a pair of heavy weight, 9 yard, high quality kilts, a handful of very lightweight synthetics for rucking or field wear, as well as casual wear... and a couple canvas utilities for working/field use.
I'm looking for a kilt or 2 in light to midweight wool, probably ~5ish yard type, that won't break the bank. While the synthetics are OK, tbey don't really keep the shape of the pleats well, and tuey don't have that swing that makes a proper kilt a kilt. Im lookg for something that I can take afield, ruck or run in, and that is still suitable for a casual evening out- without the weight or expense of a full on, top tier, 9 yard kilt. Climate is also a consideration- the subtropical North Carolina Sandhills typically sees high 90°+ summer days, lots of humidity; winters are typically mild, perhaps a few weeks of sub 40°days- not that these would be used during the coldest part of the winter.

So my questions would be: what are the pros and cons of 10/11oz lightweight vs 13oz midweight wool. I'm assuming the heavier material will "carry" better... the lightweight may be more climate appropriate, but not carry as properly.
Which makers or companies would you recommend for something of this sort? Preferably someone who will pleat to the strip...
What other things should I consider?

Any insight is much appreciated .....

[Tobus]

Straight off the cuff, I'd say a USA Kilts casual kilt in PV (11oz or so) would be just the ticket.

[The Wizard of BC]

As a kilt maker perhaps I can offer just one perspective.

Your question actually has a few parts to it and cannot be answered simply.

But - In general -

Most consider 10-11 oz fabric to be too light for a kilt. This is the type of fabric that is meant for ties and vests etc.

But are there kilts out there made from fabrics lighter than that? Yes.

The second part is the comparison of a heavy weight wool kilt with an acrylic pub style kilt or a utility style kilt. Apples and oranges.

The third is how kilt fabric is folded into pleats.
A kilt with box pleats will generally have about half the amount of fabric as a knife pleated kilt. So a knife pleated kilt is usually referred to as an 8 yard kilt. A box pleated kilt is usually referred to as a 4 yard kilt.
There are kilts out there known as 5 yard kilts. How these are made is to make each pleat wider. Wider pleats = fewer pleats = less fabric.

And finally there is the composition of the fabric and how it is woven.
Your pub style kilt are probably woven from an Acrylic or Acrylic blend.
Your utility style kilt is probably made from 100% cotton or a blend of polyester and cotton.

There is also one kilt fabric which is a blend of polyester and rayon.

And then 100% wool.

Each of these fabric compositions will have unique and distinct features.

In general the Acrylics are chosen because they are cheaper to produce so cost less.
The poly/cottons are chosen for their durability and washability.
The poly/rayons are chosen for their wrinkle resistance, their ability to hold a pleat, and washability.
Wool is chosen as it is simply the most elegant looking when sewn into a kilt.


To close - you can use the same fabric and fold that fabric many different ways and achieve a totally different feel.
You can choose based on washability or dry clean only.
Or based on some other factors.

But really, in the end, choose based on the intended use of the garment. You would choose a totally different garment to go play paint ball than you would to wear to your wedding.

Given what you have said about your intended use I would second the suggestion to give USA Kilts a good hard look. The poly/rayon blend fabric will more than likely be very different from the acrylic you may be used to. The fabric is virtually wrinkle free, is machine washable, the pleat creases will be almost permanent, and if made well like USA does most people will not be able to tell a USA Semi-trad in poly/rayon from a high end wool kilt at 10 feet.

[Scotlad45]

Gents,

I appreciate the responses- there's a wealth of information to digest.
I do understand that there is significant differences between materials, which is why I was leaning towards wool.
My utilities are canvas, and rather stiff. My synthetics re very lightweight and somewhat shapeless- they don't hold the pleats clearly or crisply. Both have fairly wide pleats.....

After looking at USA Kilts, the semi traditional seems like it would be suitable- except for a lack of tartans options... this could be problematic. The step up to the 5yd wool is +$80, and would put me $50ish over where I wanted to be- but the tartans I want are available ...
What I like about both of these options is the narrow (relative to the other non traditional kilts I have) pleating.

Lots to consider.....

[OC Richard]

For myself the "ideal kilt" is a traditional kilt of heavyweight 16oz wool, but having between 6 and 7 yards.

I found this out when a Pipe Band I used to play in issued me a kilt that was the most comfortable I'd ever worn.

It was 16oz wool, which IMHO you can't beat for feel and look and holding pleats, yet the kilt wasn't heavy.

I wondered, and when I measured the yardage I found that the kilt contained just under 7 yards. The pleats were around 3/4 inch wide.

So the next two kilts I ordered I asked for them to be made that way, 6.5 to 7 yards, and I love them.

Just last week I ordered a new kilt (for the first time in a decade) and it will be 6 yards of 16oz wool.

[Barb T]

Kilts for Highland dancers are most commonly made from 11 oz tartan (DC Dalgliesh has somewhere ~ 100 tartans in 11 oz), and they look terrific and swing just fine:



Having said that, they do wrinkle more easily than heavier weight tartan. I do agree with Steve, though, that 10 oz is pretty light (and there actually is a difference between 10 and 11 oz.).

I'd also say that, as a piper, I wear a band kilt pretty much at least once every weekend from May through September (well, I did before COVID-19), and it's not the kilt per se that's hot. It's hot under the kilt belt (which isn't any different in an 11 oz kilt than a 16 oz one), and the kilt hose are hot (ditto). The back of a 16 oz kilt IS a lot heavier (in weight) than the back of a lighter weight kilt, and a 4-yard box pleated kilt in 16 oz is a well-balanced alternative that feels lighter in weight than an 8-yard trad knife pleated kilt in 16 oz.

[McMurdo]

I would say that a 4 or 5 yard box pleat may well be the ticket. I spent quite a bit of time in NC though in the Western Mountains. At any rate what I found worked very well were 4 yard box pleated kilts in 16 oz wool. Incidentally these were made by Matt Newsome in Franklin NC. For me anyway, the lower yardage really made the difference.

Here is the Carolina tartan in a 4 yard kilt in 16 oz wool. I think it looks great, and is perfect for the summer months, however it is different than what you might be used to.

[Scotlad45]

Kilts for Highland dancers are most commonly made from 11 oz tartan (DC Dalgliesh has somewhere ~ 100 tartans in 11 oz), and they look terrific and swing just fine:



Having said that, they do wrinkle more easily than heavier weight tartan. I do agree with Steve, though, that 10 oz is pretty light (and there actually is a difference between 10 and 11 oz.).

I'd also say that, as a piper, I wear a band kilt pretty much at least once every weekend from May through September (well, I did before COVID-19), and it's not the kilt per se that's hot. It's hot under the kilt belt (which isn't any different in an 11 oz kilt than a 16 oz one), and the kilt hose are hot (ditto). The back of a 16 oz kilt IS a lot heavier (in weight) than the back of a lighter weight kilt, and a 4-ounce box pleated kilt in 16 oz is a well-balanced alternative that feels lighter in weight than an 8-yard trad knife pleated kilt in 16 oz.

What I'm starting to grasp is that the movement is more a function of the pleating that the material weight- smaller pleating = better movement...
Heavier material will hold the pleats better...

I agree that heavier or lighter makes little makes little difference regardless of the weather- wool is a remarkably versatile, all weather material, particularly in a loose garment. The waistband will likely be warmer the heavier and denser the material. Why they are lined with cotton boggles the mind.... fortunately, for my application, I'll not be wearing kilt hose, not a good option for an even remotely warm environment. I'll have the luxury of proper, well made wool socks that work well from right around freezing to 100°....

I suppose, for casual or physical purposes, weight- or percieved weight, is a greater consideration that heat.... 8yds of 16oz material is 8 pounds slung about the waist- q bit more actually. 6.5 pounds in 13oz wool. 5 yards of 13oz wool is a hair over 4lbs...
"Feeling" light has value in itself....

While a synthetic semi traditional would probably be more than suitable for my purposes, the lack of availability of the desired tartan(s) is problematic. This leaves me in the "mid range" of 5yd, 13oz wool.... at $300, its steeper than I was hoping, but not soul crushing...

[The Wizard of BC]

I would say that the method of construction has more effect on the swish than any other factor. A well made kilt of 11oz can swish just as well as a 16oz if constructed well.

On a kilt that is less well constructed it really does not matter what the fabric composition or weight is. Or how the fabric is folded into pleats.

This comes down not to the outer fabric. Be it synthetic Tartan, Solid, Wool, Poly/Cotton, anything. It comes down to the internal construction.

The less expensive kilts you have suffer first from a less expensive fabric which is why they wrinkle and do not hold a pleat crease. But they are also made differently than a kilt. It is very unlikely that they have the attention to detail, the full floating interfacing and stabilizer and the experience of a kiltmaker.

The Poly/Cotton utility kilt you have is made like blue jeans. All the strength of the garment, the fit and the swish, come from the fabric and the stitching. Due to this method of construction they will never move and swish like a kilt.

As Barb has shown even a light weight fabric can swish well.

So what is all this hoopla over 16oz wool. Well it comes down to 1) weight - a 16oz kilt just feels strong and masculine when you wear it. Very few women would feel good in 4 pounds of wool. 2) the pleats - 16oz wool is an amazing fabric for holding a crease. You can dry clean them, wash them in the tub, sit on them all day and the pleat creases just hold. 3) A good quality kilt fabric is a dream to sew and work with. Many people when they first think of trying kiltmaking will often post that they want to buy some inexpensive fabric to practice on. Kiltmakers always advise that good quality 16oz wool is, by far, the easiest fabric to work with.

So now you are down to composition and weight.

As far as composition you have your choice of a 65%Polyester/35%Rayon fabric (AKA Marton Mills Balmoral range) or 100% wool.

As far as weight you have 10-11 oz, 13 oz and 16oz. Wool only. (Yes, one mill sells what they call 'regimental' weight 18 oz but the current RRS kilts are 16oz.)

And finally how the fabric is folded into pleats.

And this effects the final weight of the garment even more than the fabric weight.

A box pleated kilt made for a guy with 42 inch hips will have just about half the amount of fabric as a knife pleated kilt for the same guy.
So a 4 yard box pleated kilt, made in 16oz wool will weigh in at right around 2 pounds.
An 8 yard knife pleated kilt, made in 16oz wool will weight in at right around 4 pounds.

An 8 yard knife pleated kilt, made in 12 oz Poly/Rayon will weigh in at 3 pounds.

Knife pleats will, in general, swish more, not better, than box pleats. All else equal.

And to me personally, I don't think it is the kilt that is hot. A kilt is a skirt. It is open at the bottom. So for the same reason that ladies wear skirts in summer to feel cooler, a kilt will feel cooler than pants. As Barb pointed out it is in the back at the kilt belt that you will sweat. I have worn 16oz, 8yard kilts in AZ in August. Was I hot, well, duh, but my legs were in the shade and cool. I was sweating under the belt and under my shirt.

[davidlpope]

For myself the "ideal kilt" is a traditional kilt of heavyweight 16oz wool, but having between 6 and 7 yards.

I found this out when a Pipe Band I used to play in issued me a kilt that was the most comfortable I'd ever worn.

It was 16oz wool, which IMHO you can't beat for feel and look and holding pleats, yet the kilt wasn't heavy.

I wondered, and when I measured the yardage I found that the kilt contained just under 7 yards. The pleats were around 3/4 inch wide.

So the next two kilts I ordered I asked for them to be made that way, 6.5 to 7 yards, and I love them.

Just last week I ordered a new kilt (for the first time in a decade) and it will be 6 yards of 16oz wool.

I echo Richard's thoughts. I think you're looking for a 16oz., low-yardage, knife-pleated kilt. Here's an old thread where I sing their virtues:

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...t-kilts-67177/