Belt Loops on front of kilt?

**rdjmchris** · 17th September 20, 10:31 AM

I was watching a rerun of Forged in Fire and the winner of this particular episode was wearing a kilt with belt loops on the front. I have never seen this on any kilt before and want to know if it is normal. Thoughts? Insight?

**Father Bill** · 17th September 20, 12:53 PM

Not normal, but then, neither are many of the guys on Forged in Fire.

If it was a Utilikilt or knock off, some of them are extremely different from traditional or iconic kilts.

**Steve Ashton** · 17th September 20, 02:58 PM

In general, kilts with a waistband, like trousers, may or may not have belt loops.

But belt loops designed for a belt are different than the large loops on the back of some kilts which are not belt loops but designed to keep a sporran from sliding off the hips.

**OC Richard** · 18th September 20, 05:07 AM

I don't want loops on the front, or the back, of my kilts.

When a kiltmaker doesn't follow my instructions to leave them off, one of the first things I do when the kilt arrives is to remove them.

**KennethSime** · 18th September 20, 08:17 AM

Originally Posted by OC Richard

I don't want loops on the front, or the back, of my kilts.

When a kiltmaker doesn't follow my instructions to leave them off, one of the first things I do when the kilt arrives is to remove them.

Richard, do you wear a kilt belt with your kilts?

My 8-yard doesn't have belt loops, but I usually wear it sans-kilt belt. My Sport Kilt does, and I just started wearing it with a kilt belt.

**OC Richard** · 19th September 20, 07:39 AM

Originally Posted by KennethSime

Richard, do you wear a kilt belt with your kilts?

I rarely wear a belt.

Thing is, the concept of a "kilt belt" is recent.

Kilts hadn't had belts since the days of the great kilt/belted plaid/philamore that required a belt to stay on. When the small kilt/philabeg was invented the pleats were sewn and a belt wasn't required. This occurred some time before 1800.

What Highland Dress has always had was a "dirk belt" which was worn to support a dirk, and not otherwise. The dirk belt was worn over the jacket, or over the waistcoat.

I think this started to change when people not raised wearing kilts, here in the US, by false analogy believed that a dirk belt was equivalent to the belt that supports trousers, and began shoving the dirk belt through the loops in the back of the kilt which were only designed for the sporran strap.

Though the rise of the Kilt Hire Industry in the UK beginning around 1970 was a huge factor as well, as men were given belts to help ill-fitting kilts not fall down.

Also contributing were Pipe Bands who, like hire shops, had to get ill-fitting kilts to stay up. Nowadays the ghastly look of the wide piper's belts with huge chrome buckles worn under the waistcoats is nearly universal in pipe bands the world over.

In any case several years ago Utilikilts were invented in Seattle and they were designed to be supported by a belt from the get-go. It was the ultimate realisation of reimagining kilts along the lines of trousers, and it's been hugely successful.

Utilikilts and shoving dirk belts through sporran loops and wearing belts under waistcoats didn't exist when I started kilt-wearing, and they've not had time to grow on me, if they ever will.

**KennethSime** · 19th September 20, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by OC Richard

I rarely wear a belt.

Thing is, the concept of a "kilt belt" is recent...

...Utilikilts and shoving dirk belts through sporran loops and wearing belts under waistcoats didn't exist when I started kilt-wearing, and they've not had time to grow on me, if they ever will.

I hear you Richard! I never felt the need for one growing up (with a well-fitting kilt), but it just seems so popular now that I figured there must be something to it.

I feel like it does help break things up if you're wearing a t-shirt, but I don't think I'd ever wear it with anything more formal.

**imrichmond** · 20th September 20, 04:12 PM

Originally Posted by OC Richard

I rarely wear a belt.

Thing is, the concept of a "kilt belt" is recent.

Kilts hadn't had belts since the days of the great kilt/belted plaid/philamore that required a belt to stay on. When the small kilt/philabeg was invented the pleats were sewn and a belt wasn't required. This occurred some time before 1800.

What Highland Dress has always had was a "dirk belt" which was worn to support a dirk, and not otherwise. The dirk belt was worn over the jacket, or over the waistcoat.

I think this started to change when people not raised wearing kilts, here in the US, by false analogy believed that a dirk belt was equivalent to the belt that supports trousers, and began shoving the dirk belt through the loops in the back of the kilt which were only designed for the sporran strap.

Johnston and Bacon, in the 39th edition of their The Scottish Clans & Their Tartans contradict this view. Unfortunately, this edition has no publication date, but I purchased the book new in 1959, so it was likely published in the early 1950s. Amazon's used book service cites a copy with a publication date of 1954, but does not indicate the edition number. In any case, these authors say "For everyday wear [...] The kilt should be belted round the waist, and should never be worn with braces or straps. (p. 11) For what the authors call "the full dress highland costume," they specify "a waist belt, and a baldric or sword belt" (p. 12) This edition contains several advertisements by highland dress businesses, including Scott Adie Ltd., Peter Henderson, The Highland House of Lawrie, Stewart, Christie & Co., all of which have long since disappeared. (Henderson and Lawrie, of course, are still well known for their highly prized bagpipes.) The four firms cited above all have illustrations of highland dress in their advertisements, none of which shows any sign of a waist belt in either day dress or formal dress. This perhaps indicates that the waist belt had largely disappeared by the 1950s and that Johnston and Bacon's text dates from a much earlier period, as their references to sword belts, baldrics and the weapons to be worn at court would suggest.

**DerekShellman66** · 21st September 20, 05:10 PM

These belt loops are actually a relatively modern addition to the kilt. They are not necessary and many kilt makers (myself included) still do not put them on. It is the straps and buckles that will keep a properly fitted kilt up, not the belt, which is purely decoration

**MichiganKyle** · 21st September 20, 06:52 PM

My kilts all have belt loops, but mine are all in either the "casual" or "utility" categories. I usually run my sporran through the loops, then a belt over the top of them. The belt is completely unnecessary for keeping the kilt in place, but I do like the look of it. Adds a nice visual delineation point between kilt and shirt IMHO. But I don't think I've ever worn a belt with a vest or a sweater.