1828 Pattern Scottish Highland Officer’s Basket-hilted Broadsword - Reproduction

**jviss** · 21st October 20, 09:24 AM

Upon further reading and consideration, I've ordered the Military Heritage Scottish Highland Regiment Officer Sword (ER II Version). According to their site, this was supplied to the Canadian Scottish Regiment (Princess Mary's). They have supplied other Canadian regiments with other pattern swords as well. In another description they refer to these as "ceremonial swords."

Despite the fact that they are not true "fighting swords," (my terminology), they are of sufficient quality and utility to be used by genuine military units.

Regarding the blade:

Blade: Made of AISI 1065 High Carbon tempered Steel which matches the sealed pattern. Why not stainless steel? High Carbon steel has a tensile strength like fighting swords whereas stainless steel is brittle and tends to shatter when struck with force. Therefore if the swords, for example, are used in fencing demonstrations they are designed to withstand reasonable contact with objects. Each double-fullered blade is acid etched with Scottish Infantry pattern markings including the ER II Royal Cypher.

The images on the website show a stunningly beautiful sword. I encourage anyone interested in these to take a look, and read the description. I think the price is great, too, $299 on sale now (normally $359), plus $29 UPS shipping to the U.S. They are in Ontario. They charge U.S. customers in U.S. dollars, which saved me the ridiculous foreign exchange fees that PayPal and credit card companies charge. If you want a Leather Sword Bag and Chamois Cover they have that, too, at a very attractive price.

(I have no connection with this business, and no experience so far.)

I will probably return the Pakistani one when I receive it (seller pays return postage!).

So, in summary, this is exactly what I was looking for, and, judging by its use in the Canadian forces, the real thing, as far as I'm concerned!

I'll post a review when I receive it.

Regards,

jv

**Bruce Scott** · 21st October 20, 04:28 PM

From the discussion here http://myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.28715.html it appears that the swords sold by Military Heritage are made in India.

**KennethSime** · 21st October 20, 09:51 PM

If they are from Windlass, in India, I can comment briefly. I have a Claymore from Windlass. Decent work steel, but the handle become loose after a few years with only minor cutting. It sounds like this doesn't matter to OP, and I bet it will be a fine costume piece or wall hanger.

**jviss** · 22nd October 20, 05:28 AM

Originally Posted by Bruce Scott

From the discussion here http://myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.28715.html it appears that the swords sold by Military Heritage are made in India.

I suspect that the military Heritage swords are made somewhere other than Ontario, but the thread you link to is anything but conclusive; some very vague speculation, as I read it. How did you get "appears that" from that thread?

**plaid preacher** · 22nd October 20, 11:58 AM

I will begin with my apology. I am sorry that this is the contrarian opinion.

The first has to do with the product description from Military Heritage. There is not one military member who wears a sword in full dress who would ever, ever, EVER use his sword for "light fencing". Parade swords are highly polished. They go with you dress uniform and therefore must look impecable.

Second, unless I was an officer/Sr NCO in a highland regiment I would never think of wearing a sword just because I am in highland dress. My rule of thumb - if I wouldn't wear it with a saxon suit, I will not wear it with highland dress. I believe the sword falls into this category. Put your amethyst back in your sporran Jaimie.

Finally: if you are looking for a sword to mount on the wall, then most will probably fit the bill. No one will get that close to tell whether you paid $50 or $500 dollars. AS they say, it all looks the same from 20 yards and a galloping horse.

Most military swords (British/Canadian), that I am acquainted with are manufactured by Wilkinson Sword and most officers (or Jr Officers, at least) draw their sword from stores for parades.

**jviss** · 23rd October 20, 08:31 AM

Originally Posted by plaid preacher

I will begin with my apology. I am sorry that this is the contrarian opinion.

The first has to do with the product description from Military Heritage. There is not one military member who wears a sword in full dress who would ever, ever, EVER use his sword for "light fencing". Parade swords are highly polished. They go with you dress uniform and therefore must look impecable.

Second, unless I was an officer/Sr NCO in a highland regiment I would never think of wearing a sword just because I am in highland dress. My rule of thumb - if I wouldn't wear it with a saxon suit, I will not wear it with highland dress. I believe the sword falls into this category. Put your amethyst back in your sporran Jaimie.

Finally: if you are looking for a sword to mount on the wall, then most will probably fit the bill. No one will get that close to tell whether you paid $50 or $500 dollars. AS they say, it all looks the same from 20 yards and a galloping horse.

Most military swords (British/Canadian), that I am acquainted with are manufactured by Wilkinson Sword and most officers (or Jr Officers, at least) draw their sword from stores for parades.

I think you're taking all of this too literally, and too seriously. That bit text from Military Heritage that goes "for example, are used in fencing demonstrations" is a paragraph they use to describe all of the blades made of 1065 steel; they aren't suggesting anyone is doing fencing demonstrations in full dress, as you have imagined, they are only saying it won't break with knocking the blade against something.

As I said in an earlier reply, "a realistic model of the real thing is what I want, for display, highland dance, maybe piping some day." As far as wearing one in highland dress, if the dress calls for it, one very well may.

Since this pattern was introduced in 1828 there have probably been a hundred makers in addition to Wilkinson. Wilkinson was an innovator, and probably made the most consistently reliable swords for that use for which they were originally intended. But, alas, Wilkinson as a sword maker is no more, and hasn't been around since 2005. So all such swords have been made by someone else since.

I have no reason to disbelieve Military Heritage when they say they have supplied these to the Canadian Scottish Regiment (Princess Mary's), or their infantry sword to the 1st and 3rd Battalion, Royal Canadian Regiment, and 32 Signal Regiment.

If this thing looks as good as the pics I'll be thrilled. We shall see. If it's made in India that's fine. The images of this sword look far superior to what is commonly available of Indian and Pakistani origin, though.

**jviss** · 23rd October 20, 01:38 PM

I received the Pakistani sword today - oy, what a piece of junk! It's going back. Can't wait to see the Military Heritage example.

**Piobair** · 23rd October 20, 02:18 PM

The vast majority of basket hilts, whether they go by "1828" or "1831" or officers pattern are pretty rough or at the very least look very "off." You can spot them from a mile away. Usually stamped brass basket, unstructured cloth lining and varying blade/scabbard quality. I took a look at the military heritage page, and this model is probably the best in terms of replicating a sword that actually looks like a Pooley or Wilkinson - http://www.militaryheritage.com/sword28.htm. These periodically come up at auction as well. For the most part though, the vast majority of basket hilts on the internet look god awful, neither close to current mil spec or even vaguely authentic for those with recreation on the mind.

I had a very good faux Wilkinson basket hilt about a million years ago that I contemplated wearing with No 1 dress while piping. Bought hangers and practiced marching about with it and... no. I can speak for the majority of us at the games when I say the first response to someone who shows up with a $75 dollar dirk or random claymore is to shake our heads. If you want to be a sword guy, cool. But it's not highland dress... it's highland make believe.

**Bruce Scott** · 22nd October 20, 03:10 PM

Originally Posted by jviss

I suspect that the military Heritage swords are made somewhere other than Ontario, but the thread you link to is anything but conclusive; some very vague speculation, as I read it. How did you get "appears that" from that thread?

These posts:

Jonathan Hopkins: "The MH swords are made by either Weapon Edge or Universal Swords"

Edward Lee: "These are indeed made by Universal swords."

And here are the links to the makers:

http://weaponedge.com/about-us.html

https://www.universalswords.com/about-us

**jviss** · 22nd October 20, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by Bruce Scott

These posts:

Jonathan Hopkins: "The MH swords are made by either Weapon Edge or Universal Swords"

Edward Lee: "These are indeed made by Universal swords."

And here are the links to the makers:

http://weaponedge.com/about-us.html

https://www.universalswords.com/about-us

Both of those guys are speculating, they don't know; they certainly don't provide any compelling evidence to support the assertion. Did you even look at those websites? Both have but one picture of their sword, and in both cases the blade doesn't match that of the Military Heritage sword.

Now, it may well be that one of these makers is making the Military Heritage sword under contract, but one can't tell that by an examination of these websites or the speculation of guys on the internet.

I'll post a review when I get mine.

jv