Is it OK for just anybody to kilt up?

[FossilHunter]

Try another way. Look at the top of this section “General Kilt Talk” you will see lots of assorted page numbers, click on a page number close to page 195/6 and then work your way to the required number.

Both threads are on page 195. I have just looked.

Food for Thought Part 1:

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...thought-68799/

Food for Thought part 2:

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...wo-f4t2-71243/

[Nemuragh]

My question is, is it considered cultural appropriation for someone who has no ties to Scotland to wear a kilt?

Obviously, different people will have different opinions. Here’s mine: the kilt is an item of clothing originating in Scotland (utilikilts aside). It is Scotland’s gift to the world (one of many). If you like it and want to wear it, I’m flattered and pleased. Generosity is a virtue.

In the spirit of reciprocity, I often eat ‘Mom’s’ apple pie and feel no pangs of cultural appropriation whatsoever.

John

[OC Richard]

It's an interesting, and probably ultimately unanswerable, question: has Highland Dress crossed the line from being regional ethnic clothing to being an international fashion choice?

It has evidently already crossed the line from being regional ethnic clothing to a National Dress.

If any evidence of the latter was needed I could point to the creation of The Royal Regiment Of Scotland which put the entirety of Scotland's infantry into tartan kilts. (Prior to that only Highland regiments were kilted.)

Or this little book I have here

The Kilt: A Manual Of Scottish National Dress
by Loudon MacQueen Douglas FRSE, FSA Scot.
1914

In the Preface the author speaks of about The Scottish Society:

The Scottish Society...was founded in 1911...

The objects of the Society are as follows: The cultivation of Scottish National sentiment, the preservation of Scottish Traditions, and the encouragement of the wearing of The Scottish National Dress.

One does wonder what the actual Highlanders thought about an Edinburgh society saying such things.

About Highland Dress becoming a mere fashion choice in the rest of the world, I think most people around the world still regard Highland Dress as equating to Scotland and Scottishness, and I don't see signs of this changing anytime soon.

About the "right" and "wrong" of it, that's not for me, an American, to say.

What would the Japanese think of a Gaijin walking around in a kimono? It would be interesting to find out.

I know that myself, being from Appalachia, would find it puzzling to see somebody (even there) walking around in the traditional Appalachian costume. Really the only place one sees it is at West Virginia University gridiron matches, where the mascot is in full 18th century mountain-man attire and many supporters in the stands are wearing the hats.

[MichiganKyle]

What would the Japanese think of a Gaijin walking around in a kimono? It would be interesting to find out.

Here in the Grand Rapids, MI area, we have a Japanese language and kimono/yukata enthusiast club that meets at one of the larger local bookstores. (I speak/read/write some Japanese, but I'm not part of the club due to lack of time.) Both activities seem to be quite well-accepted among actual Japanese people, with opinions I've heard ranging from "whatever, it's fine" to the more common side of "wow, that's really cool that someone outside of Japan is that excited for our thing", both about gaijin learning Japanese (even poorly - the effort is usually commended) and wearing kimono.

[MichiganKyle]

My question is, is it considered cultural appropriation for someone who has no ties to Scotland to wear a kilt? I have a utility kilt and enjoy wearing it. I'm in a rock band and wear it on stage, but recently got some questioning from a couple guys who said they were of Scottish descent. I don't mind negative comments from 'Joe Blow', but comments from 'Angus Guthrie' carry more weight.

If it is ok, is wearing plaid (not a tartan) permissible since my ancestors are Anabaptist Swiss/German, and I have no ties to Scotland?

My opinion on the subject? The USA is a country founded on the principles of cultural appropriation - that we're all here to share something. Either from genetics, marriage, or adoption, the only continents I don't have family with ties to are South America, Australia, and Antarctica, and that's only considering family within a uncles/aunts/first-cousins breadth. I certainly don't get offended if someone outwith the USA enjoys such things as McDonald's food, potato chips, chocolate chip cookies, breakfast cereal, baseball, or wearing t-shirts or blue jeans. (Now, whether those things are a tasteful thing, in the USA or not, is a different question entirely. ) We're all humans, and I consider the very concept of "cultural appropriation" to be offensive and frankly quite frequently racist.

Besides, when you start playing those mind games, it gets into some weird territory. Do you consider a Chinese immigrant owning a Chinese restaurant which serves fortune cookies to be cultural appropriation? Because although the history's a little murky, they seem to be rather distinctly American, but likely originally came from Japanese immigrants, who were themselves Americans when they started making them. It seems certain it is not originally a Chinese food. As additional evidence, although I have never been to China, friends of mine have, with nary a fortune cookie to be found when they were there and Chinese people considering that to be an American food, at least in the part of China they visited. And is that Chinese restaurant allowed to present Western utensils to customers? Are you allowed to drink using a straw outside of the USA? Or is that only for paper straws, but if they're made from gold you have to be of Sumerian ancestry? How about ice cream cones? Are those Italian, Syrian/Lebanese, or American? Or does Missouri "own" that, because it's their official state food? Is it cultural appropriation for people outside of the USA (and maybe Italy, depending on how you interpret history) to use a telephone? Is it cultural appropriation for Mexicans to speak Spanish? Is it cultural appropriation for the Japanese constitution to be written using kanji, when those characters were originally from Chinese? Is using the English alphabet in the USA cultural appropriation of cuneiform, Egyptian hieroglyphs, some form of ancient Semitic script, the Greeks, the Romans, the English, or any number of other places/times? What time period do we pin "ownership" of the alphabet on? And who was culturally appropriating from whom? Is apple pie American (because we've adopted it), English, Dutch, or do we say it all derives from a native-Asian fruit and is therefor "owned" by some specific place in Asia?

For crying out loud, get along, celebrate each other, and share! We're all in this together, no matter where you're from, or where your parents were from, or where your great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandparents were from. We are all human, and I find it utterly absurd that people want to divide up into tiny groups and fight with each other over such incredibly petty things.

That said, I would also be a little hesitant to wear a kilt in Scotland for several reasons (mostly because it usually points you out as an American tourist), but I have no qualms about wearing one in the USA.

Also, you say you have German ancestry? How about a German Heritage tartan kilt:

https://www.usakilts.com/kis-gh-casual-kilt.html

Or for Swiss ancestry:

https://www.tartanregister.gov.uk/ta...ails?ref=10491

Or American Heritage:

https://www.usakilts.com/is-ah-casual-kilt.html

Or the Alabama State Seal Tartan:

https://www.usakilts.com/kilts-and-p...n/alabama.html

Or, depending on your educational proclivities, how about the University of Alabama tartan:

http://www.tartan.ua.edu/

Or the many, many "universal" tartans that anyone can wear, regardless of affiliation. And if you don't like the options you find, you can design your own tartan and have it woven. Even with zero Scottish ancestry, and even if you care about whether a particular tartan is "appropriate" for you (some people care, others couldn't care less), your options are numerous and varied.

[OC Richard]

Here in the Grand Rapids, MI area, we have a Japanese language and kimono/yukata enthusiast club...both activities seem to be quite well-accepted among actual Japanese people...

Ikanji!

Keeping in mind, as a Japanese guy visiting California told me, "here, I am the Gaijin".

I suppose it's not unlike the Celtic Arts Center here in Los Angeles, where they offer Irish language and dance lessons, have regular Irish sessions, host performances of Irish and Scottish music and dance, and have a Robert Burns night.

However it doesn't have a kiltwearing enthusiast component as far as I know.

[Steve Ashton]

If I can, I would like to relate my personal experiences.

First off, I am not Scottish. I am an American who lives, and has dual citizenship, in Canada. My only Scottish connection is one Grandfather back in the early 1800's who, on a US census, listed that his father was born in Scotland.

I began wearing kilts and then became a kilt maker simply because I liked kilts.
Here in Canada, and also in the US, I found a very pleasant surprise. If I am in trousers I am just another old, white guy. No one paid me any more attention than any other guy like myself.

But once I began to wear a kilt people on the street made eye contact. They smiled back and responded if I said hello.
Even women would return a hello and sometimes a smile.

I have visited Scotland. I have packed only kilts when I did so.
I have never felt as uncomfortable wearing a kilt that when in Scotland. Not even when in England or Wales.
I visited with my suppliers, and visited Edinburgh as I wanted to experience the home of Tartan Tat firsthand.
During my first time in Edinburgh my wife and I started a trip down the Royal Mile at the top of the hill with a visit to the Castle. As we walked across the Tattoo grounds my wife noticed an ice cream truck. She went to get an ice cream and I continued to the entrance of the Castle to await her.

Now, to put this in perspective, Here is a photo taken later the same day when I visited with Howie Nicklesby. I had removed my jacket as we were having a pint in a local pub and it was a bit warm that day. Just to show that I was not dressed slovenly.



Well, I got to the drawbridge and stood there. In the time that it took for my wife to join me I would guess over 50 people came up to me asking for a photo with the guy in the kilt. All were tourists who were a bit disappointed that I seemed to be the only kilt in the city. By the time my wife joined me I had a group of young Japanese girls hanging off of me. I wish I had had a hat to place on the ground. I could have paid for the trip.

As we progressed down the hill towards Holyrood house I stopped into every kilt shop we found. I walked into the shop of one of the most respected Scottish kiltmaking names in the entire kilt world. The shop was long and narrow. The little bell on the door rang as I entered.
There was just one clerk in the store. A young man, dressed in slacks and a light blue sport coat, all the way in the back, up on a step stool, arranging a display.

I had casually strolled about half way through the store before the clerk even turned around to see who had come in.
But I was totally taken aback when the clerk looked me up and down before saying in a very condescending way - "Oh, another American came to Scotland and bought himself a kilt."

To say that I was gobsmacked is an understatement. All I could manage was "Well, actually sir, I am a kilt maker. I wear a kilt every day. And you, sir, just lost a sale."
I turned on my heel and walked out.

In visits to all over Scotland, I have never felt as unwelcome. I feel like I should have worn a sign on my back. "Sorry, I'm just a kiltmaker.", as an apology.

No where else in the past 20 years have I been received like I was in Scotland and it left a very bitter taste in my mouth. The only exception was 1 other kiltmaker and X Marks members.

According to the parliament of Scotland, the official symbol of Scotland is Tartan. Not the kilt.
Scotland is the home of the Tartan Tat phenomenon. It is to the Scottish hire shops that we owe much of the outlandish myths that are so prevalent in the rest of the world today. The whole "Authentic full Scottish highland dress outfit" concept to include, Prince Charlie coattees worn with a belt as day wear, fuzzy white rabbit sporrans worn down against the crotch, white hose, Tartan flashes, ghillie brogues with the laces half way up the leg, Tartan flashes and the horrid Ascot tied in a 4-in-hand knot Ruche tie.

As a kilt maker I have had the opportunity to see, hands-on, many Scottish made kilts. I find it odd that instead of taking pride in the kilt and the quality of Scottish makers, the kilts seem to be made to the lowest common denominator. You do not know how many Scottish made kilts I have seen that do not pass the stretch test or fit the wearer well.
When I query Scottish kilt makers about this, I am universally met with an all too common dismissal. "I'm Scottish. Don't try to tell me. I know best. No maker outside of Scotland can make a 'real' kilt." And also "We are having to compete with the Pakistani invasion that has stolen our livelihood.". (Even though The Gold Bros. are 100% born and raised in Edinburgh)

So yes, while I can respect that different views have been expressed in some of the previous comments I strongly disagree with some of them. Scotland does not own my kilts. I do. I am not doing so to pretend I am Scottish or to adopt anyone elses racial heritage. I like wearing a kilt and will continue to do so for my own reasons. And I believe I am fully within my rights to ignore those who try to tell me that I do not have the "right" to wear a kilt because I do not live above the Highland Line or speak with a Scottish accent.

[Father Bill]

You've just changed my perspective, Steve - much for the better.

Thank you.

[Jock Scot]

If I can, I would like to relate my personal experiences.

First off, I am not Scottish. I am an American who lives, and has dual citizenship, in Canada. My only Scottish connection is one Grandfather back in the early 1800's who, on a US census, listed that his father was born in Scotland.

I began wearing kilts and then became a kilt maker simply because I liked kilts.
Here in Canada, and also in the US, I found a very pleasant surprise. If I am in trousers I am just another old, white guy. No one paid me any more attention than any other guy like myself.

But once I began to wear a kilt people on the street made eye contact. They smiled back and responded if I said hello.
Even women would return a hello and sometimes a smile.

I have visited Scotland. I have packed only kilts when I did so.
I have never felt as uncomfortable wearing a kilt that when in Scotland. Not even when in England or Wales.
I visited with my suppliers, and visited Edinburgh as I wanted to experience the home of Tartan Tat firsthand.
During my first time in Edinburgh my wife and I started a trip down the Royal Mile at the top of the hill with a visit to the Castle. As we walked across the Tattoo grounds my wife noticed an ice cream truck. She went to get an ice cream and I continued to the entrance of the Castle to await her.

Now, to put this in perspective, Here is a photo taken later the same day when I visited with Howie Nicklesby. I had removed my jacket as we were having a pint in a local pub and it was a bit warm that day. Just to show that I was not dressed slovenly.



Well, I got to the drawbridge and stood there. In the time that it took for my wife to join me I would guess over 50 people came up to me asking for a photo with the guy in the kilt. All were tourists who were a bit disappointed that I seemed to be the only kilt in the city. By the time my wife joined me I had a group of young Japanese girls hanging off of me. I wish I had had a hat to place on the ground. I could have paid for the trip.

As we progressed down the hill towards Holyrood house I stopped into every kilt shop we found. I walked into the shop of one of the most respected Scottish kiltmaking names in the entire kilt world. The shop was long and narrow. The little bell on the door rang as I entered.
There was just one clerk in the store. A young man, dressed in slacks and a light blue sport coat, all the way in the back, up on a step stool, arranging a display.

I had casually strolled about half way through the store before the clerk even turned around to see who had come in.
But I was totally taken aback when the clerk looked me up and down before saying in a very condescending way - "Oh, another American came to Scotland and bought himself a kilt."

To say that I was gobsmacked is an understatement. All I could manage was "Well, actually sir, I am a kilt maker. I wear a kilt every day. And you, sir, just lost a sale."
I turned on my heel and walked out.

In visits to all over Scotland, I have never felt as unwelcome. I feel like I should have worn a sign on my back. "Sorry, I'm just a kiltmaker.", as an apology.

No where else in the past 20 years have I been received like I was in Scotland and it left a very bitter taste in my mouth. The only exception was 1 other kiltmaker and X Marks members.

According to the parliament of Scotland, the official symbol of Scotland is Tartan. Not the kilt.
Scotland is the home of the Tartan Tat phenomenon. It is to the Scottish hire shops that we owe much of the outlandish myths that are so prevalent in the rest of the world today. The whole "Authentic full Scottish highland dress outfit" concept to include, Prince Charlie coattees worn with a belt as day wear, fuzzy white rabbit sporrans worn down against the crotch, white hose, Tartan flashes, ghillie brogues with the laces half way up the leg, Tartan flashes and the horrid Ascot tied in a 4-in-hand knot Ruche tie.

As a kilt maker I have had the opportunity to see, hands-on, many Scottish made kilts. I find it odd that instead of taking pride in the kilt and the quality of Scottish makers, the kilts seem to be made to the lowest common denominator. You do not know how many Scottish made kilts I have seen that do not pass the stretch test or fit the wearer well.
When I query Scottish kilt makers about this, I am universally met with an all too common dismissal. "I'm Scottish. Don't try to tell me. I know best. No maker outside of Scotland can make a 'real' kilt." And also "We are having to compete with the Pakistani invasion that has stolen our livelihood.". (Even though The Gold Bros. are 100% born and raised in Edinburgh)

So yes, while I can respect that different views have been expressed in some of the previous comments I strongly disagree with some of them. Scotland does not own my kilts. I do. I am not doing so to pretend I am Scottish or to adopt anyone elses racial heritage. I like wearing a kilt and will continue to do so for my own reasons. And I believe I am fully within my rights to ignore those who try to tell me that I do not have the "right" to wear a kilt because I do not live above the Highland Line or speak with a Scottish accent.

I have heard you tell this story before Steve and I am afraid that it does confirm my observations perfectly.

Whilst we are all granted the right to have an opinion. In this case on such a minor matter of attire, it is absolutely not right that those opinions should make visitors feel uncomfortable. Unless asked for. A website such as this, is the place that we discuss kilt matters in detail and with decorum and respect, even if it is unpopular.

The fact that you picked up the “vibes” is unfortunate but not surprising given that Scotland does have a fairly unsubtle way of going about things on occasion, which is to say the least, unhelpful on occasion and downright rude. But let us not forget that the Scots are entitled to an opinion too, whatever that may be.

Personally, I regret that you and no doubt others are made to feel uncomfortable when visiting here, particularly as tourism is a major part of Scotland’s economy. A fact that is being made so painfully obvious at this present time and is a reminder to all here that visitors matter.

[Steelkilt]

We're all humans, and I consider the very concept of "cultural appropriation" to be offensive and frankly quite frequently racist.

100% - Well said!