I picked up a second-hand P.C. What else do I need to buy to make the outfit work?

[Father Bill]

He looks great and I agree the outfit is impeccably put together. Question ... is he wearing his sporran a bit low?

That went through my mind too. It wouldn't be comfortable going up stairs at that height.

[gsmacleod]

He looks great and I agree the outfit is impeccably put together. Question ... is he wearing his sporran a bit low?

It looks quite low to me and is quite a bit lower than I prefer to wear a sporran.

Shane

[Jock Scot]

It looks quite low to me and is quite a bit lower than I prefer to wear a sporran.

Shane

Sporran height, particularly in civilian cases is more of a personal choice than anything else and there is quite a bit of leeway in height. I often notice in pictures of me that the sporran is just a tad too high, or a tad too low to my preferred intention. Its really no big deal either way. It happens and is no bother to quickly rectify the problem-----if it is a problem---- at a discreet moment.

[gsmacleod]

Sporran height, particularly in civilian cases is more of a personal choice than anything else and there is quite a bit of leeway in height. I often notice in pictures of me that the sporran is just a tad too high, or a tad too low to my preferred intention. Its really no big deal either way. It happens and is no bother to quickly rectify the problem-----if it is a problem---- at a discreet moment.

Agreed; I have been told that I tend to wear my sporran too high. However, I find that if I'm moving around at all, a bit higher is much more comfortable than having it lower and swinging all over the place.

Shane

[OC Richard]

I got lucky this weekend, and ended up with a Prince Charlie in my size for $56 total.

That's super! A man after my own heart.

BTW I think that's around what I paid for my first Prince Charlie. I was 19 or 20, walking around a Highland Games, and there was a vendor whose promised tables hadn't arrived, so his merchandise was laid out on the dirt. There, filthy on the underside, and with a clear shoe-print on the upper side, was an otherwise fine-looking Prince Charlie, which fit me perfectly. Also in the dirt was a seal-skin and silver-plate Prince Charlie style Evening sporran. I bought both for around $100 as I recall.

the buttons are rather cheap (seem to be chromed plastic or maybe pewter).

The buttons on standard Scottish-made Evening jackets are nearly always the same, chrome plated metal, but which metal I don't know, perhaps brass.

I will likely wear this jacket once per year or less - I've really only had one occasion to wear a tux so far in my life, and don't foresee many more...

For sure California is that way! However back in my University days I wore my Prince Charlie quite a bit: my girlfriend was a concert violinist and we were always attending posh events. And being a piper, in the days before The Coming Of The Black Argyll, I often wore the Prince Charlie for gigs.

I'll need a wing-collar tux shirt...

Do I need a bowtie? ...not a fan of the rouche tie...

I really don't want to buy a fur sporran... If you weren't going to go for a fur or sealskin sporran, what would you go for?

Can I just wear some nice HoC Lewis hose? I think diced hose or Argyll hose are very nice, but I don't think I'll be spending $200 on them anytime soon.

This gets into the question of traditional Highland Dress, what looks proper to someone steeped in it, and whether or not you want to follow those notions.

I always like knowing about the history and milieu of things, and as such I've collected quite a few things about Victorian and 20th century Highland Dress.

The first thing to know about the Prince Charlie (or "coatee" as it was originally and correctly called) is that it's a 20th century invention, quite early in the century. In 1910 it was being called "new" and in the 1930s it was still spoken of as something suitable for fashionable slim young men, and not suited for mature gents.

From the get-go the Prince Charlie was treated like the existing Evening jacket, the Doublet, made in black, blue, and green, and worn with the Evening Dress of the early 20th century:

-bow tie or lace jabot

-low-cut 3-button waistcoat selfcoloured, tartan, red, or buff

-Evening sporran which meant either seal-skin or long white hair, with silver top

-tartan or diced hose

-buckled shoes.

Here, on the left, are two illustrations of the then relatively new Prince Charlie in a 1930s catalogue. Note that the Prince Charlie is a bit more dressed-up that we're used to, by one gent, with lace jabot, tartan waistcoat, and castellated hose.

The other gent is wearing the Prince Charlie as it was usually worn, with black bow tie and ordinary diced or tartan hose.



At the time the Prince Charlie was introduced, and through most of the 20th century, it wouldn't have been considered proper to wear a long tie, or go sans waistcoat, or wear a leather sporran, or plain hose, or ghillies (unless fitted with buckles).

So that's the background, the tradition. Personally I think buckled shoes, tartan or diced hose, and an Evening sporran are called for with Evening Dress.

But how do life-long kilt-wearers in Scotland wear the Prince Charlie nowadays? Let's see. Here's a group of men, I believe all of them Scottish born and raised, all of them kilt-wearers since they were young lads.

Notice that buckled shoes are gone, and half of the men are wearing plain hose. However all are wearing black bow ties and the traditionally called-for Evening sporrans.

(The man wearing buckled shoes is wearing the Doublet, the older form of Evening jacket.)

There's another thing your eye might catch: one man is wearing the higher-cut 5-button waistcoat generally worn with the Argyll jacket. (He has an MBE he can dress how he likes!)



I mentioned the Prince Charlie coatee and Prince Charlie sporran I bought in the dirt as a youngster. Here I am wearing my new finery! That was my perception, as a relatively new kilt-wearer in the late 1970s, of how the Prince Charlie should be worn.



Were I to wear a Prince Charlie now, it would be something like this. (I don't have the proper waistcoat.)

[ktk1961]

I noticed that all six of these men are wearing a version of Ghillie Brogues (even the gent with the buckles) with the long laces tied up the lower leg. Personally, I like what they add to a formal outfit ... although there are many in the "rabble" who would ardently disagree.

[Jock Scot]

............ although there are many in the "rabble" who would ardently disagree.

Indeed they will. Why? Two main reasons, the pipe band and hire company influences and a third, ignorance. The first two reasons have absolutely nothing to do with traditional highland civilian dress(THCD) and the third probably cannot be helped, because if you don't know then, well, you don't know.

[KennethSime]

That's super! A man after my own heart...

Richard, you're informative as always. Quite useful, and I especially appreciate the vintage catalogue pictures. Thank you.

[Father Bill]

You do know, Kenneth, that when you have your kit all put together, we want pictures of it, with you in it. Lots of pix!

[KennethSime]

You do know, Kenneth, that when you have your kit all put together, we want pictures of it, with you in it. Lots of pix!

Hah! Pictures? Isn't that what Facebook is for? :-)

I think I'm almost there for smart daywear, but the P.C. kit will take some time, I think - better to buy quality that'll last than to throw something together quickly.