How do you feel about Grandfather shirts?

[KennethSime]

But if it's unvarnished opinions you seek, come to xmarks.

Thank you all for your feedback! That is precisely why I posted this one here. I think I prefer a nice tattersall most days. ;-)

In California, we'd call the white thing under my shirt a t-shirt, or more specifically a crew-neck undershirt. To my mind, a singlet is an athletic garment often worn for Olympic wrestling or cycling. Many here would refer to a waistcoat as a vest, basically a jacket with no sleeves, or anything that goes over your shirt without sleeves.

Amazing how words change across time and distance - one of my favorite parts of interacting with you all on the internet. :-)

P.S. The hose are "oatmeal," but I hear that they're a bit close to white. I'll admit I don't wear them often, but thought they'd be nice with this particular tartan.

[OC Richard]

I play in an Irish traditional music trio, we got tweed waistcoats and Grandfather shirts which we wear with trousers. We "look the part" to our American audiences and our appearance is accepted for all occasions including wedding receptions. It gets us out of having to wear jackets and neckties!

Here I am several years ago playing uilleann pipes with a striped Grandfather shirt.



But with kilts I wouldn't wear a historical-looking shirt unless I was piping in a production of Brigadoon, which I have done.

I did some digging and found one a photo of me piping at a Renaissance-themed event in the early 1980s!

[OC Richard]

Amazing how words change across time and distance...

Yes indeed! To modern Scots "vest" and "waistcoat" mean two different things, but in Scotland in the 1920s and 1930s the words were used interchangeably, sometimes both words in the same paragraph, referring to the same garment.

In many cases US usages which are perceived by the British as being innovations are in reality older usages once common to both places. And it happens in both directions more or less equally. It's why Britain and the USA, in the days before modern travel and media, would have drifted into mutual unintelligibility within a thousand years or so.

[RichardtheLarge]

I like Grandfather shirts and wear them. I have a few of the “Civilian” brand which come from Ireland.

They are without question the lowest level of shirt formality other than a T-shirt/polo shirt (which I wouldn’t wear with a kilt), and are therefore more at home with a kilt belt with a big clunky brass buckle rather than a waistcoat, and this is typically how I wear them. I generally don’t wear undershirts under any circumstances, including with Kilted formalwear (too many layers already!).

You will discover that the Rabble has a pronounced antipathy for white and cream colored kilt hose, one that I irrationally share after several years of kilt wearing. As others have speculated here, it might simply be because the kiltwear and kilt hire industries were pitching blinding white hose as formalwear for several decades (an atrocious look to be avoided at all costs). The kilt in your post is crying out for burgundy, navy, bottle green, purple, or yellow hose.

[Tobus]

In the UK our vests(under garment) usually has a V neck or a deeply scalloped front part so nothing shows behind the open necked shirt. I don't know if the modern generation in the UK bother too much about the "vest" showing, but for my generation it was/is an absolute no-no. Akin to tucking your shirt into your underpants!

I was chatting to one of my Grand children, just and out of interest I asked him about a vest showing with an open shirt and apparently, "one does not have the vest showing ever! Surely you know that Grand Dad?!" I assured him that I did. Then came another comment over the phone that I think might explain the situation," I think its what Americans do?" I think he is right.

Yes, it's very much an American thing, I suppose. Over here, wearing an undershirt that's visibly exposed when worn with an open/unbuttoned collar on a button-front shirt is considered slightly more dressy than having one's exposed chest hair peeking out from the open front. It most likely developed as a fashion rejection of the 1970s style where showing one's chest was all the rage. Many here in the US today view undershirts as being akin to socks. They can be visible without any sense of embarrassment of "showing one's undergarments", and it's more classy than seeing one's leg hair or chest hair.

As for "grandfather shirts", I'm not a huge fan of them with the kilt. They strike me as a "Jacobite shirt lite", if that makes any sense. I'm not saying I wouldn't wear one in a very casual setting; indeed I have been known to wear a long-sleeved Henley-style shirt with the kilt, which has the same overall effect. I think my objection to the grandfather shirt is more about the marketing of it in the kilt industry rather than the style.

(edited to add photo of Henley shirt for reference)

[Micrographia]

When I was growing up an undergarment like that was commonly referred to as a semmit . As in "When I was a lad ye were sewn intae yer semmit fur the winter"

Few people wear such an item these days now central heating has taken away the need for warmth when indoors. Having said that, I still have a few semmits. I wear them under a jersey when cycling - they are sold as "wicking base layers" for extravagant sums and do the opposite job to the old undergarments when you are working hard on the bike.

Regards, EEM.

[OC Richard]

At least here in California a perfectly acceptable way for a man to dress at nearly any function- including weddings, and events where some men will be in tuxedos- is to layer a V-neck-tee over a crew-neck-tee, worn with a sport coat or blazer.

Here t-shirts aren't regarded as undergarments, perhaps due to our warm weather?

[Father Bill]

Here t-shirts aren't regarded as undergarments, perhaps due to our warm weather?

I think that's the reason for California, but it has invaded a lot of other regions too. Not something I personally find respectable in other climates.

A little off topic perhaps, but a lot of people out and about town look to me as if they're dressed to clean out the basement. I guess I'm just old.

[Tobus]

Here t-shirts aren't regarded as undergarments, perhaps due to our warm weather?

Warm weather is just the pretext Californians use to justify it, but I think it has more to do with California's unique casual culture. It's much warmer (hotter!) in Texas and the South than California, but I don't see people attending what should be black-tie events in double t-shirts under a jacket. That sort of thing has only caught on in very urban areas where they like to emulate that sort of style. But hey, you never know - with all the Californians moving to Texas (including much of the tech industry which tends to dress on the ultra-casual side), it could spread here eventually. I don't expect that I'll be partaking, however.

As for undershirts being visible, I tend to prefer a darker shirt that looks less undergarment-like unless I'm actually wearing a white outer shirt. I've never been a fan of stark white, even with socks. For the most part, when I'm at work or around town, I'm wearing a darker-coloured collared shirt with a grey or black undershirt. I'm also very fond of olive/khaki undershirts, probably due to military influence in my formative years. My father (USAF officer) and all his peers wore Woodland camo BDUs to work every day with that olive undershirt showing at the neck, and it sort of cemented itself in my psyche as the thing to do.

[imrichmond]

I think that's the reason for California, but it has invaded a lot of other regions too. Not something I personally find respectable in other climates.

A little off topic perhaps, but a lot of people out and about town look to me as if they're dressed to clean out the basement. I guess I'm just old.

Indeed! I frequently pipe for funerals and memorial services and am often the only man there wearing a jacket and tie, even in cool weather. I'm often appalled to see people show up to these events dressed in t-shirt and jeans (and not just the men!), often not particularly clean ones. Whatever happened to the concept of dressing to show respect for the deceased?

Sorry if this has hijacked the original thread.