Military Origin of ‘True Scotsman’ Tradition

[KennethSime]

Groups of young men often do foolish things, especially when isolated from their girlfriends, parents, and other adults whom they might otherwise worry about embarrassing.

[figheadair]

Go back to to the 18th century, or look at comments about Highland Troops in France during the Waterloo Campaign. What was worn then I wonder?

[neloon]

The practice definitely existed during WW1 when my father was in the trenches with the Gordons and the reason was simply to minimise laundry when on active service. BUT
1. The "rule" did not apply to officers and that included pipers.
2. Short trews were issued to be worn if the medical officer indicated that cold weather would require their use on sentry duty, when the soldier was behind the lines having his kilt deloused and when he went home on leave.
3. There are stories about mirrors on sticks to check on adherence to the practice but, in the Gordons, the command "prove" was simply issued which required the soldier to lift the aprons of his kilt to waist level.

Alan

[Regimental]

The practice definitely existed during WW1 when my father was in the trenches with the Gordons and the reason was simply to minimise laundry when on active service. BUT
1. The "rule" did not apply to officers and that included pipers.
2. Short trews were issued to be worn if the medical officer indicated that cold weather would require their use on sentry duty, when the soldier was behind the lines having his kilt deloused and when he went home on leave.
3. There are stories about mirrors on sticks to check on adherence to the practice but, in the Gordons, the command "prove" was simply issued which required the soldier to lift the aprons of his kilt to waist level.

That’s really interesting, and good to have some account directly from that era. I had definitely heard myself that the practice of going without underwear did not apply to officers in WWI (insofar as it applied to anyone) – interesting that this extends to pipers from your understanding. Certainly a contrast with the post-war era and today, where kilted officers very much abide by the ‘regimental’ tradition – I wonder how that evolved over time.

I’ve never seen any credible evidence of the mirrors on sticks approach, and it seems most unlikely that that level of effort would be gone to, to be honest (I’m not even sure how effective a small mirror would actually be!). The “prove” command seems more realistic if checks were actually to be made.

[Nemuragh]

I’ve never seen any credible evidence of the mirrors on sticks approach, and it seems most unlikely that that level of effort would be gone to, to be honest (I’m not even sure how effective a small mirror would actually be!). The “prove” command seems more realistic if checks were actually to be made.

My father was in the Irish Guards during WW2. He told us kilts were not worn for that period but he was posted to Buckingham Palace (which he called ‘Buck House’) - I don’t know how often. He said that there was a mirror set into the ‘Guard Room’ floor.

[neloon]

Incidentally, the term "true Scotsman" came to be used as a kind of joke because the answer is always "Yes". You are either a "true" Scotsman or a "trews" Scotsman.

Alan

[Regimental]

My father was in the Irish Guards during WW2. He told us kilts were not worn for that period but he was posted to Buckingham Palace (which he called ‘Buck House’) - I don’t know how often. He said that there was a mirror set into the ‘Guard Room’ floor.

Interesting, though again WW2-era, and I don’t suppose we can know exactly what the mirror was for without some testimony from kilted soldiers themselves (albeit I’m struggling to think of many other purposes!

Incidentally, the term "true Scotsman" came to be used as a kind of joke because the answer is always "Yes". You are either a "true" Scotsman or a "trews" Scotsman.

I’ve always joked with my trews-wearing friend any time we are at an event and he was substituting trews for a kilt that I was the true Scotsman, and he was just the trews Scotsman

[Nemuragh]

Interesting, though again WW2-era, and I don’t suppose we can know exactly what the mirror was for without some testimony from kilted soldiers themselves (albeit I’m struggling to think of many other purposes!

My recollection is that he said the mirror was at the door (out onto the parade ground?). He definitely thought it was to check that nothing was being worn. However, he might have been mistaken since it doesn’t seem to have been in use; it might have been the opposite.

[Bruce Scott]

The Imperial War Museum has in its collections a pair of sealed pattern Highlander's drawers with the following description:

"A pair of sealed pattern drawers (shorts), British Army Highlanders, dated 1918, made from white fabric with metal buttons at the front, there is a small paper label fixed to the obverse printed as follows ROYAL ARMY CLOTHING FACTORY OCT 1918 DRS. SHORTS HIGHDR."

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/30116136


Unfortunately a photograph is not available.

[neloon]

The official specification was "RACD Pattern 8538/1915, “Drawers, short, Highlanders"
A pattern for officers' tartan undertrews can be found in "The Great War: Styles & Patterns of the 1910s" but the book is rare and would bankrupt you!

Alan