Stolen valor or harmless tribute?

**lagco** · 12th October 23, 05:21 PM

Pardon of this isn't the right place for this inquiry. I had the idea of using old British cap badges ( with light modifications) as kilt pins. The badges in question are from long defunct/ consolidated regiments, and no one who would recognize the insignia could think that I was representing myself as a former soldier of the regiment ( I'm about two generations too young for that).

My hope was to reflect some of my father's side ( the regiments were territorial to his home county). While there is a county tartan for his area, it's not in common production and, quite frankly, isn't a great tartan anyway.

So, British military insignia which I didn't earn on non- military kilts, or a nice tribute to the half of my family who never wore kilts ? Your opinions appreciated.

**Father Bill** · 12th October 23, 05:54 PM

I for one would never do it. Others will be more knowledgeable about proper protocol, I'm sure.

**Ninehostages** · 12th October 23, 06:24 PM

Originally Posted by lagco

Pardon of this isn't the right place for this inquiry. I had the idea of using old British cap badges ( with light modifications) as kilt pins. The badges in question are from long defunct/ consolidated regiments, and no one who would recognize the insignia could think that I was representing myself as a former soldier of the regiment ( I'm about two generations too young for that).

My hope was to reflect some of my father's side ( the regiments were territorial to his home county). While there is a county tartan for his area, it's not in common production and, quite frankly, isn't a great tartan anyway.

So, British military insignia which I didn't earn on non- military kilts, or a nice tribute to the half of my family who never wore kilts ? Your opinions appreciated.

I'd be happier if the defunct badges were from your own military service. Here in Canada, it is illegal to wear any currently used insignia, even if they were yours during your service according to the QR&O (KR&O now, I guess) and it is a crime to wear a forebear's medals ever. It's up to your conscience from there.

**EagleJCS** · 12th October 23, 06:43 PM

I personally wouldn't wear them, just as I now wouldn't wear any other insignia I haven't earned.*

If you wanted to display them, a nice shadow box with a description of the unit and the area the unit came from would be nice.

If they're family mementos, then add who wore the badge and perhaps a photo of the person in question.

*(Full disclosure: I used to wear an old US military olive drab field jacket - M65 - that belonged to my mother's older brother. I added patches from the US Army units my father had been in. I also have a US military olive drab 'boonie' hat and I put on a couple of pins that belonged to another of my mother's brothers who served in the US Air Force. But, I never wore a complete military uniform at any time, decommissioned or not, and I was never trying to pretend to be someone or something I was not. I was wearing just those items, at different times. I wear neither of those items any more.)

**Jock Scot** · 13th October 23, 03:16 AM

Be careful. In my youth I had boxes of British military cap badges and was surrounded by relatives who had served their Country when required. They were very strict on what I could wear when I wanted to "play soldiers".The advice they all gave was it was all right to wear a cap badge or insignia from a defunct unit after it was disbanded AND as long as there were no members of that unit still alive. It was suggested that 100 years after the last veteran had died was the appropriate time to wait.

Well alright, I don't think there are any rules and regulations about wearing/using cap badges from disbanded units, but I think that a good amount of time needs to pass before others start to use them and perhaps 100 years is about right?

**lagco** · 13th October 23, 03:26 AM

Thanks to all for your feedback. I had thought that two generations and an ocean might be enough, but will let wiser heads prevail. The hundred-year rule seems reasonable.

I'll just look for a red dragon rampant and hope that it's not confused with a Welsh wyvern.

**OC Richard** · 15th October 23, 06:41 AM

My grandfather served in WWI, my uncle in WWII. I wouldn't wear any parts of their uniforms, medals, or insignia.

What I'm fascinated by is how in Scotland people openly wear parts of military uniforms and regimental insignia and nobody seems to care.

Here, at the Braemar Games, with members of the Royal family in attendance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jl6sdHg1xwE&t=501s

As the pipe bands march by (jump to 8:22) notice the dress of the left-most band, who are wearing:

-Gordon Highlanders kilts, plaid brooches, cap badges, and crossbelt badges
-Black Watch red hackles
-Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders dicing to their bonnets

An American pipe band would probably be lambasted for wearing this mish-mosh of military kit, but here's a civilian pipe band in Scotland doing it, and marching by the Queen (Colonel-in-Chief of the Black Watch) and Charles (Colonel-in-Chief of the Gordon Highlanders) while wearing elements of both regiment's uniform (with the Argylls thrown in for good measure).

**Jock Scot** · 15th October 23, 07:11 AM

OCR.

Two points about wearing military uniform in civilian pipe bands..

1. The band may have a connection to a military band and might(?) have historical "permission" to wear that uniform. The military bands historically used civilian pipe bands as a training ground for recruiting young bandsmen when they came of age, or, when the mood takes a young chap that the army may be for him.

2. A point that seems to be ignored by those outwith Scotland, that there is little or no connection between civilian kilt attire and civilian pipe band uniform in general and military pipe band attire in particular. Particularly when it comes to attire choices.

**figheadair** · 15th October 23, 11:39 PM

Originally Posted by OC Richard

What I'm fascinated by is how in Scotland people openly wear parts of military uniforms and regimental insignia and nobody seems to care.

Here, at the Braemar Games, with members of the Royal family in attendance.

As the pipe bands march by (jump to 8:22) notice the dress of the left-most band, who are wearing:

-Gordon Highlanders kilts, plaid brooches, cap badges, and crossbelt badges
-Black Watch red hackles
-Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders dicing to their bonnets

An American pipe band would probably be lambasted for wearing this mish-mosh of military kit, but here's a civilian pipe band in Scotland doing it, and marching by the Queen (Colonel-in-Chief of the Black Watch) and Charles (Colonel-in-Chief of the Gordon Highlanders) while wearing elements of both regiment's uniform (with the Argylls thrown in for good measure.

The band is the Huntly & District Pipe Band which was formed in 1948 by Gordon Highlanders returning home from service in WWII. I would imagine that they chose their civilian uniform to reflect the serice of various band m3mbers.

**OC Richard** · 16th October 23, 07:02 AM

Originally Posted by figheadair

The band is the Huntly & District Pipe Band which was formed in 1948 by Gordon Highlanders returning home from service in WWII. I would imagine that they chose their civilian uniform to reflect the service of various band members.

Thanks, interesting to know the history.

We used to have a band in Los Angeles called Cabar Feidh who wore MacKenzie Seaforth kilts and Seaforth Highlanders cap-badges. I believe that three of the founding members were ex-Seaforths WWII veterans.

Nevertheless, I've seen from other photos that Huntly & District currently contains youngsters who couldn't possibly be ex-army. Thus the OP's question "stolen valour or harmless tribute?" would have to be answered "harmless tribute" in that case.