Ghillie brogues - why the dislike and resentment..?

[OC Richard]

square dancing actually.

With Scottish Country Dancing you're up on your toes whenever you're in motion, which is why the dancing Ghillies are so thin and flexible. They don't really have soles per se.

Now with Square Dancing the whole foot can be in contact with the floor right? So you'll probably want actual shoes with some kind of soles.

Actually back in the 1980s when I was an avid Country Dancer my partner and I were out at a folk festival and we joined in with the Square Dancers. Seemed to us that the two kinds of dancing had all the same basic sorts of steps, though they called them different names. Once we learned what names went with our familiar steps we had no problem following the caller.

And we thought "how cool would it be to have a caller in Scottish Country Dancing!"

Because we have fixed dances that we have to learn and memorise in advance.

[OC Richard]

A week ago I visited Vindolanda, a Roman fort a bit south of Hadrian's Wall.

(For those not aware the Romans manned forts both north and south of the wall. No-one knows what system, concept, or purpose these forts, and indeed the wall itself, fit into.)

Due to the oxygen-free bacteria-free soil leather, wood, cloth, etc are perfectly preserved and over five thousand Roman shoes have been recovered. (The shoes found were ones which had been discarded by their owners, thus the poor condition of many.)

Of the few on display, these had an uncanny resemblance the proto-Ghillies drawn by the Allen Brothers and "RR McIan".

Being as the Vindolanda shoes weren't discovered until 1973 one wonders just what the Allen Brothers based their "ancient Highland" footwear on. Is the resemblance coincidence, or something else?

[figheadair]

A week ago I visited Vindolanda, a Roman fort a bit south of Hadrian's Wall.

(For those not aware the Romans manned forts both north and south of the wall. No-one knows what system, concept, or purpose these forts, and indeed the wall itself, fit into.)

Due to the oxygen-free bacteria-free soil leather, wood, cloth, etc are perfectly preserved and over five thousand Roman shoes have been recovered. (The shoes found were ones which had been discarded by their owners, thus the poor condition of many.)

Of the few on display, these had an uncanny resemblance the proto-Ghillies drawn by the Allen Brothers and "RR McIan".

Being as the Vindolanda shoes weren't discovered until 1973 one wonders just what the Allen Brothers based their "ancient Highland" footwear on. Is the resemblance coincidence, or something else?

We will probably never know whether that Allan Brothers' design was coincidence or cultural plagiarism. As you have noted before, the basic style is fairly ubiquitous and, accepting that wheels have to be round, if one were to design a new one it would probably follow the tried and tested shape.

[figheadair]

BTW, isn't Vindolanda fantastic. What a treasure.

[Jock Scot]

BTW, isn't Vindolanda fantastic. What a treasure.

British understatement at its best!

[OC Richard]

Epiphany in Glasgow August 2024.

[spr0k3t]

I'm personally not a fan. I've owned the same pair for about 18 years... outside of the dust, minor scuffing of the souls, they look brand new. I have other footwear I prefer to wear when I'm kilting around. From informal slacker to full outfit. Anything from flip-flops or sandals to OxBlood Solovairs or custom patent leather Italian side zips. Gillie Broughes... they sit in a box, inside a box, under a bed. The last two times I laid eyes on them was the last two times I moved.

[User]

This thread has talked me out of getting ghillie brogues. Having a lace cinch around my Achilles tendon sounds like a bad idea.

[Troglodyte]

This thread has talked me out of getting ghillie brogues. Having a lace cinch around my Achilles tendon sounds like a bad idea.

Don't be too hasty...

Full brogues and ghilles (despite ghillies' Revival-era origins 200 years ago, and the misplaced connotations with the kilt-hire industry) they are arguably the only proper traditional shoe for with the kilt.

The English Lowland styles such as Oxfords and Derbys that get advocated (because they have been seen in vintage photos) are not, and can never be, part of proper Highland dress.

Wearing these shoes with the kilt is like wearing an ordinary tweed jacket with it - you see it done, but there is no reason to copy it when there are so many much better alternatives.

If the wrap-around ankle-tie laces of ghillie brogues is the problem, the solution is to follow the advice given in the how-to-wear-the-kilt booklets from the mid-years of last century.

They say to wrap the long laces around the foot - over the instep and under the arch in front of the heel and then tie on top as usual - or to swap the long laces for a more convenient shorter length, and tie them as normal. The tassel end-trims can be easily transferred to the short laces and so nothing in that way is lost.

Wearing Oxford toe-caps is well enough if you have no other better shoes, but the danger is that you appear to be a novice kiltie still finding his way, or have given way to worries that others may judge you by their own poor standards. You won't be thought better of.

When there are so many varieties of suitable brogues available (leaving aside the open-front ghillie) it seems a pity to shun them all in favour of non-Highland alternatives.

The style of ghillies gives them a certain 'fancy' dress character that lends itself well to full highland dress, but for more casual kilting, a closed, full brogue is probably more appropriate anyway - and there are plenty of options at a wide variety of prices out there. The heavy Scotch-grain (pebble-grain) version with a stout sole (they often come with Commando soles) are exactly right for trudging around a games field, tramping the moors, or even just sauntering along footpaths.

[OC Richard]

Having a lace cinch around my Achilles tendon sounds like a bad idea.

That's a very interesting observation!

I've worn Ghillies since 1977 and that never occurred to me.

Actually there's not much tension on the laces. Your foot flexes up and down as you walk and the laces have to be able to move as your foot moves.

And like any sensible person I wear my wristwatch at the narrowest part of my lower arm and I tie my Ghillies around the narrowest part of my lower leg, so tension isn't required for either my watch band or my Ghillie laces to stay in place.