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6th August 24, 02:00 AM
#51
![Quote](http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/images/misc/quote_icon.png) Originally Posted by wcsgorilla
Wait, what? I know I am going to hate myself for this but… that isn’t true??
No, it's not true.
The Dress Act, as it was known, was part of the pacification of the Highlands following the failed Jacobite Rising of 1745. It bans garments, not the material - not tartan per se.
The Act prohibits the wearing of Highland dress by men and boys (not women and girls) ...within that part of Britain called Scotland, other than such as shall be employed as Officers and Soldiers in His Majesty's Forces, shall, on any pretext whatever, wear or put on the clothes commonly called Highland clothes (that is to say) the Plaid, Philabeg, or little Kilt, Trowse, Shoulder-belts, or any part whatever of what peculiarly belongs to the Highland Garb; and that no tartan or party-coloured plaid of stuff shall be used for Great Coats or upper Coats, and if any such person shall presume after the said first day of August, to wear or put on the aforesaid garment or any part of them, every such person so offending ...
where such an offence shall be committed, shall suffer imprisonment without bail during the space of six months and no longer, and being confived of a second offence... to be transported to any of His Majesty's plantations beyond the seas, there to remain for the space of seven years.'
The garments mentioned were the fightng clothes - battledress if you like - of the Highlanders and tartan had become the political symbol of the Jacobite army. The fact that we are still moaning about it nearly 300 years later shows what smart move on the part of the British government it was, and how far it went to reduce the ability of the Highlander if he had any future ideas about rebellion.
Think of the Act in the same light as the disarming of Germany and Japan post-1945 and you get and understanding of the effect. And think of tartan as the same sort of symbol as the Confederate flag or the swastika and the government's reasoning becomes clear. For the time, the punishment was not very harsh.
It's not that tartan itself was banned, but few in the UK would have wanted to wear it anyway, due to its connotations, and the wide-reaching effect of the Act produced the effect of a ban.
However, it has been often written about, that demand for tartan in the New England colonies and West Indies saw a surge, which is why genuine old samples of tartan found in these places is of such value today.
Virtually the only acceptable tartan was that worn by the military - the Government Tartan or Black Watch - which would have been seen widely. There are some famous portraits of Highland gentry in tartan during the period of the ban, but if these were painted outside the Highland Line, no law would have been broken.
Samuel Johnson, on his well-documented journey through Scotland in the 1770s records how he saw Highlanders in their native dress, without fear of molestation by authority. This was 30 years (a generaion) or more after the act was introduced, so the inital fury had long-since died down by that time.
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6th August 24, 02:19 AM
#52
![Quote](http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/images/misc/quote_icon.png) Originally Posted by Tomo
Absolutely not being serious - but clearly someone, somewhere must believe this guff.
Had me scratching my head - so if I wear my clan tartan, as it's red that might imply some sort of military association (despite many regimental kilts being green and blue) - but if I wear the hunting version of my tartan that shows my connection to the land and nature - really!!
Worry not OCR, Tomo clearly shows that he was using a certain amount of sarcasm with the addition of British slang, ie "--- guff---" that clearly states he was talking with his tongue placed firmly in his cheek. In other words "rubbish".
" Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the adherence of idle minds and minor tyrants". Field Marshal Lord Slim.
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6th August 24, 03:38 AM
#53
![Quote](http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/images/misc/quote_icon.png) Originally Posted by ShaunMaxwell
Jock:
I can’t speak with any authority on churches other than my own, but my impression is that it’s just by some, and those being the Catholic or churches whose services are similar to/derived from those of the Catholic church (i.e., Episcopal, Lutheran, Methodist, etc. in which the clergy wear vestments, etc.). The church my family attends derives from the Restoration Movement (which has its roots in Scotland, by the way) and is not “high church”, so none of this for us. Not likely be seen in evangelical or more fundamentalist churches.
Now back to kilts and tartans…
Cheers,
SM
In my Lutheran youth, I had the impression that the liturgical colors would be reflected primarily in the stole (or tippit, or sash ...) worn over the shoulders and draped down the front of the vestments. The stole would change with each season, but the base vestments would remain the same. (In those traditions derived from the Catholic, as you say.)
When in doubt, end with a jig. - Robin McCauley
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8th August 24, 10:40 PM
#54
![Quote](http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/images/misc/quote_icon.png) Originally Posted by Tomo
Found on the internet - someones' answer to a question on the significance of colours in tartan
On the internet! Must be true then!
I suppose that would be the place to start if one wanted to compile a list of silly answers, those internet "ask a question about anything" sites.
Proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; son of the Revolution and Civil War; first Europeans on the Guyandotte
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9th August 24, 03:53 AM
#55
![Quote](http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/images/misc/quote_icon.png) Originally Posted by Touchstone
In my Lutheran youth, I had the impression that the liturgical colors would be reflected primarily in the stole (or tippit, or sash ...) worn over the shoulders and draped down the front of the vestments. The stole would change with each season, but the base vestments would remain the same. (In those traditions derived from the Catholic, as you say.)
We Anglicans change all the paraments (Hangings) and the priests change their stoles and chasubles.
Rev'd Father Bill White: Retired Parish Priest & Elementary Headmaster. Lover of God, dogs, most people, joy, tradition, humour & clarity. Legion Padre, theologian, teacher, philosopher, linguist, encourager of hearts & souls & a firm believer in dignity, decency, & duty. A proud Canadian Sinclair.
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18th August 24, 01:03 AM
#56
![Quote](http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/images/misc/quote_icon.png) Originally Posted by Father Bill
We Anglicans change all the paraments (Hangings) and the priests change their stoles and chasubles.
I'm often piping at churches of various denominations and I've seen the paraments but didn't know what to call them.
Just now I googled "parament set" and "parament full set" and saw quite a range of what all a church could have.
This set appears to have eight components. https://psgvestments.com/collections...ltar-paraments
Last edited by OC Richard; 18th August 24 at 01:06 AM.
Proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; son of the Revolution and Civil War; first Europeans on the Guyandotte
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18th August 24, 03:30 AM
#57
![Quote](http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/images/misc/quote_icon.png) Originally Posted by Father Bill
We Anglicans change all the paraments (Hangings) and the priests change their stoles and chasubles.
Ah, yes, the paraments of course (that was also a new term to me). But I don't recall that our pastor wore a chasuble (or at least a non-white overgarment). Too far in the misty past, though. I could easily be forgetting.
When in doubt, end with a jig. - Robin McCauley
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18th August 24, 04:07 AM
#58
![Quote](http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/images/misc/quote_icon.png) Originally Posted by Touchstone
Ah, yes, the paraments of course (that was also a new term to me). But I don't recall that our pastor wore a chasuble (or at least a non-white overgarment). Too far in the misty past, though. I could easily be forgetting.
The chasuble is only for the Eucharist and even then is optional. It is used mostly by Romans and ‘high church’ Anglicans and some Lutherans. Since you refer to your clergy as “pastor” I doubt that you are either of the former.
Last edited by Father Bill; 23rd August 24 at 03:32 AM.
Rev'd Father Bill White: Retired Parish Priest & Elementary Headmaster. Lover of God, dogs, most people, joy, tradition, humour & clarity. Legion Padre, theologian, teacher, philosopher, linguist, encourager of hearts & souls & a firm believer in dignity, decency, & duty. A proud Canadian Sinclair.
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23rd August 24, 01:04 AM
#59
I was raised Methodist, here are some Methodist clergy.
Usually it's either albs or robes (like black university robes) with stole.
Proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; son of the Revolution and Civil War; first Europeans on the Guyandotte
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23rd August 24, 10:51 PM
#60
White in a tartan
![Quote](http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/images/misc/quote_icon.png) Originally Posted by Troglodyte
An article in the Braemar Gathering souvenir programme from a few years ago talks informatively about tartan, giving the less well-informed than we are here a bit of an insight into origins and inspiration for new setts.
The author writes that, at a lecture given on the subject, his authority and knowledge was challenge
by one of the audience with the statement that white in tartan signifies it was worn at the Battle of Culloden. Why did he not know?
Hmmm, well...
That's a new one to me. So what do you make of it?
Despite the woefully mistaken and wonderfully romantic ideas, where do people get these notions..?
Imagine a hesitant customer shopping for his heritage on the Royal Mile, who is showing signs of pulling out a lucrative deal.
Our quick-thinking sales-assistant comes up with the deal-clincher of "Well, of course all those white stripes are there to show your chosen tartan was worn at Culloden. You descend from Jacobite heroes! What? Increase your oder to five kilts? One for each member of the family? Will that be cash or card, sir..?
What is it they say about fooling some of the people all of the time..?
I believe there is some convoluted truth to this. I think a white brooch indicates your clan was a Jacobite supporter.
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