Scottish, Irish, and just generally Gaelic Flute Music?

[WildThistles]

You're welcome!

There's an odd thing about the traditional Irish flute world.

When I first got into it (in the 1970s) I kept hearing flute players whose goal seemed to be to blend in with fiddle playing as much as possible, and flute players who seemed to be trying to make their playing sound like uilleann pipe playing.

The eye-opener was when I heard the 1920s recordings of Tom Morrison, whose goal seemed to be to make his flute sound like a flute, to capitalise on the things that flutes do, the things that set the flute apart from fiddles and uilleann pipes.

Here he is!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-blZR7M-DI

I've never heard any other fluter (never flautist!) do all the things he does.

In particular I love the thing where he'll play a string of notes staccato, out of the blue.

There were older fluters who had that Morrison bounce to their playing, one such was Michael Tubridy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfaV...uJmXzzTZX7Mkru

Oh huh, I'll definitely check his stuff out! The flute is such a beautiful instrument with it's own strengths, it's a shame to just relegate it to mimicry of other instruments, so his work definitely sounds of interest and educational. Also I've never heard the term fluter before, but it sounds like a fun one: ) Do you know the linguistic/cultural reasons for the differing term?

[OC Richard]

Here's what Nancy Toff has to say about the various terms for people who play flute:

On the average of once a week somebody asks me "are you a flutist or a flautist?"

My answer is a vehemently declaimed "Flutist!"

Less decisive people call me a fluteplayer, or even fluter...but please don't call me a flautist.

I have run into "fluter" in the Irish flute world, I suppose an analogy with "piper".

But I think "flute-player" is the most common term.

("Flautist" was invented by a Victorian English poet living in Italy. where the word for flute is flauto.)

[Father Bill]

An interesting analysis and opinion on the two words is found here: https://writingexplained.org/flutist...autist-correct

[OC Richard]

Hmmmm phrasing it as "the word flautist first appeared" hints at more legitimacy than the word has, as if it was in circulation.

It was coined by the poet. For some reason literary people who were outside the world of music picked up on it.

As far as I know it's never been used within musical circles.

Well it's like the term "bagpipist". Nobody in the piping world would use such an absurdity. But several times over the years I've found myself listed as that in programmes.

Pipers just say "piper".

The press does have a tendency to either coin or pick up on words that they think have a nice ring to them, and use them despite their not being recognised in the fields which newspeople apply the words to. There's a common example here in the USA that the rules of this site don't allow me to mention.

[WildThistles]

Hmmmm phrasing it as "the word flautist first appeared" hints at more legitimacy than the word has, as if it was in circulation.

It was coined by the poet. For some reason literary people who were outside the world of music picked up on it.

As far as I know it's never been used within musical circles.

Well it's like the term "bagpipist". Nobody in the piping world would use such an absurdity. But several times over the years I've found myself listed as that in programmes.

Pipers just say "piper".

The press does have a tendency to either coin or pick up on words that they think have a nice ring to them, and use them despite their not being recognised in the fields which newspeople apply the words to. There's a common example here in the USA that the rules of this site don't allow me to mention.

That's an interesting history. Personally, most flute players I've interacted with haven't had issues with the term, but perhaps that's a result of its normalization over time. I did always feel a bit self-conscious with the term "flautist," so it's nice to have alternative options that are also somewhat standard.

[OC Richard]

...most flute players I've interacted with haven't had issues with the term, but perhaps that's a result of its normalization over time.

Just how normalised "flautist" is depends on context.

If you showed up at an Irish music session populated by Irish people and/or non-Irish people who have spent a lot of time in the Irish trad world and announced that you were a "flautist" there would be rolling of eyes and knowing glances.

About the classical/orchestral/mainstream flute world Nancy Toff is about as much an insider as there can be, and I've quoted her opinions above.

My point is that incorrect terms can get traction outside of the field the term comes from, but not within that field.

An example that comes to mind is "flippers" which isn't used within the scuba diving world. They're called "fins".

One thing that's very widespread when people who don't know anything about languages or linguistics are talking about languages they don't speak is describing all of them as being either "nasal" or "guttural". It's nonsense. These terms do have specific meanings in linguistics, for example a "nasal" is a sound where the air escapes through the nose. English has two nasals "m" and "n" (try saying those while holding your nose) but there's no such thing as a "nasal language".

[WildThistles]

Just how normalised "flautist" is depends on context.

If you showed up at an Irish music session populated by Irish people and/or non-Irish people who have spent a lot of time in the Irish trad world and announced that you were a "flautist" there would be rolling of eyes and knowing glances.

About the classical/orchestral/mainstream flute world Nancy Toff is about as much an insider as there can be, and I've quoted her opinions above.

My point is that incorrect terms can get traction outside of the field the term comes from, but not within that field.

An example that comes to mind is "flippers" which isn't used within the scuba diving world. They're called "fins".

One thing that's very widespread when people who don't know anything about languages or linguistics are talking about languages they don't speak is describing all of them as being either "nasal" or "guttural". It's nonsense. These terms do have specific meanings in linguistics, for example a "nasal" is a sound where the air escapes through the nose. English has two nasals "m" and "n" (try saying those while holding your nose) but there's no such thing as a "nasal language".

That is good to know, thank you for the information: ) I've heard of a lot of stories regarding groups where language to describe them is given that the original group may have not agreed with, and then younger people who aren't as in touch with that original group and who grow into the group just continue to use that non-preferred language.

[User]

...

These terms do have specific meanings in linguistics, for example a "nasal" is a sound where the air escapes through the nose. English has two nasals "m" and "n" (try saying those while holding your nose) but there's no such thing as a "nasal language".

I never would have guessed that this morning I'd recite the alphabet with my nose plugged.