Ghillie brogues - why the dislike and resentment..?

[Troglodyte]

This thread has sewn together a pretty broad range of views - from the love 'em and wear 'em gang, to the hate 'em on principle opposition.

Each to their own, I guess...

But for those who would-but-not-sure in the middle-ground, what about these?

https://www.cheaney.co.uk/pitlochry-...okbinder-p1759

Shoes don't come much better than Cheaney's and with these you get the best of both worlds - the ghillie-style lacing on a full brogue, but with short laces and a conventional tongue.

Surely these bridge the gap, and could easily be worn with trousers if desired, so not solely with-me-kilt shoes.

Yea or nay..?

Cheaney's own RRP is a bit rich at £460, but retailers like House of Bruar has them listed at £395 - so it pays to shop around.

[Jock Scot]

Well alright, thats much better, but, they would still not be much use out on the hill though.Too much space for the bits of heather, etc, to find their way in!

[User]

Cheaney's own RRP is a bit rich at £460, but retailers like House of Bruar has them listed at £395 - so it pays to shop around.

Way too rich for my poor blood. I happened to stumble on these "tongue ghillies" for £85.00 (~113.24 USD). You probably get what you pay for. But paying less and getting less is the best some can afford.

https://www.benwyviskilts.co.uk/stor...gue-p555925286

[Troglodyte]

Well alright, thats much better, but, they would still not be much use out on the hill though.Too much space for the bits of heather, etc, to find their way in!

I'm with you there, Jock..!

Real men of action like us, who thrive in the great outdoors, need footwear like this -

https://williamlennon.co.uk/shop/157r-hill-shoes/

I saw a pair being worn at the Lonach games recently, and felt shameful pangs on envy.

As the man said, the only way to get rid of temtation is to yeild to it as the soul grows sick with longing for the things is has been denied.

These hill-shoes may be too much for me to resist, so in the interests of my soul's health and well-being, I think I should send off a cheque to our man Mr Lennon...

[Troglodyte]

Way too rich for my poor blood. I happened to stumble on these "tongue ghillies" for £85.00 (~113.24 USD). You probably get what you pay for. But paying less and getting less is the best some can afford.

https://www.benwyviskilts.co.uk/stor...gue-p555925286

I always measure these things in cost-per-wear units - by the time you've worn them 100 times, the cost is down to less than £1 at time. And who knows how long 'affordable' shoes like this would last.

But if they only get worn with the kilt, and so periodically, they could well last many years, so be excellent value in that respect.

The compromise comes with the construction and materials used, and the Cheaney version would last decades withoout doubt.

Back in the 1980s, I happened to be based in Northampton, the centre for 'bench grade' shoes. I would frequently call in at the likes of Trickers, Crocket & Jones, Alfred Sargent etc, and come away with sample styles or end-of-lines at less than £30 a pair.

Some pairs have been worn to the third re-soling and are still going strong, so my money would be on the Cheaneys in this case.

[Jock Scot]

I'm with you there, Jock..!

Real men of action like us, who thrive in the great outdoors, need footwear like this -

https://williamlennon.co.uk/shop/157r-hill-shoes/

I saw a pair being worn at the Lonach games recently, and felt shameful pangs on envy.

As the man said, the only way to get rid of temtation is to yeild to it as the soul grows sick with longing for the things is has been denied.

These hill-shoes may be too much for me to resist, so in the interests of my soul's health and well-being, I think I should send off a cheque to our man Mr Lennon...

I think that you should.

I have worn a pair.........the same pair........ of "hill shoes" quite happily in some pretty rugged conditions for more years than I can remember. You are so right to not to judge the value of goods just by the price on the day and your cost per wear point, is a much better way to calculate these things. I have no doubts that my "hill shoes" will last a lot longer than I will!

[Troglodyte]

I think that you should.

Oh no, Jock, no..!

Now look what's happened! I've sent off an order enquiry to Lennons, asking about options and possibilities.

So when the shoes arrive and my good lady wife has me pinned against the wall with a glinting carving knife at my throat, demanding to to know what I thought I was upto, do you think 'But darling, Jock made me do it...' will let me off the hook?

Well, only one way to find out...

[Jock Scot]

Oh no, Jock, no..!

Now look what's happened! I've sent off an order enquiry to Lennons, asking about options and possibilities.

So when the shoes arrive and my good lady wife has me pinned against the wall with a glinting carving knife at my throat, demanding to to know what I thought I was upto, do you think 'But darling, Jock made me do it...' will let me off the hook?

Well, only one way to find out...

Oh that's just dandy! Blame poor old "Jock"! I suppose I could exit the county/country for a few years and miss the shooting/fishing seasons for decade or six? Or, change my name, address, phone numbers, email addresses? Or ? Or ? No! Don't answer that!

[OC Richard]

But for those who would-but-not-sure in the middle-ground, what about these?

https://www.cheaney.co.uk/pitlochry-...okbinder-p1759

...with these you get the best of both worlds...

Not a fan.

They remind me of these things we see driving around here in California all the time, a hybrid that combines the disadvantages of two different kinds of vehicles...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7H0QaI8lgY

[Wandering Spark]

A week ago I visited Vindolanda, a Roman fort a bit south of Hadrian's Wall.

(For those not aware the Romans manned forts both north and south of the wall. No-one knows what system, concept, or purpose these forts, and indeed the wall itself, fit into.)

Due to the oxygen-free bacteria-free soil leather, wood, cloth, etc are perfectly preserved and over five thousand Roman shoes have been recovered. (The shoes found were ones which had been discarded by their owners, thus the poor condition of many.)

Of the few on display, these had an uncanny resemblance the proto-Ghillies drawn by the Allen Brothers and "RR McIan".

Being as the Vindolanda shoes weren't discovered until 1973 one wonders just what the Allen Brothers based their "ancient Highland" footwear on. Is the resemblance coincidence, or something else?

I think I found the original "ghillie":
H.TA 7 NMS Perthshire shoe.jpg
It was purchased by the Society of Antiquaries of Scotland in 1852, who described it as: "Fine specimen of Ancient Celtic Shoe, curiously wrought in ornamental open-work, found six feet beneath the surface, near Callander, Perthshire.” (Source: https://journals.socantscot.org/inde...icle/view/3893)
The actual discovery date isn't recorded, but it easily could have been 8 or 10 years earlier. Another item purchased by the Society in 1852 was discovered in 1837. The Callander shoe certainly bears a striking resemblance to the Allen Brothers drawings.
Fake Stuarts 17thc crop.png
Fake Stuarts ghillies crop.png

Despite the Society of Antiquaries identifying the Callander shoe as 'Celtic', I'm pretty sure it's actually Roman. The Callander shoe more closely resembles the Vindolanda shoes in cut and construction than it does any of the shoes that are confirmed to be Irish or Scottish. (Also, there is a Roman fortification near Callander.) The shoe is now in the collection of the NMS. https://www.nms.ac.uk/search-our-col...ts?entry=31058

The other reason I think you're correct about ghillie brogues being a 19th c. invention is that the lacing setup looks suspiciously similar to early 19th c. English fashion. Just look at these 1804-1810 English women's shoes:
early 1800s womans shoes.jpg