Ghillie brogues - why the dislike and resentment..?

[AngloCelt]

One reason for their not so great rep would be people wearing the laces so far up the leg they look like a gladiator. This seems to come from the kilt hire industry especially with the bright white socks.

You read my mind exactly!

[Allan Thomson]

In the Manx Museum's folk life gallery there's a pair of Goat Skin Curranes that was made around 100 years ago (I need to date check they could even be 19th C) for an antiquarian by a man who had learned the skills to make them from his predecessors and then made them regularly until they were replaced by more modern shoes in a village that still spoke Gaelic in the early Century. They were made with the hair on the outside which points to their authenticity as being more authentically closer to the style in which they were made traditionally. Given the close historical connections between Mann and the Western Isles personally I feel this shoes probably is closer to a Highland Currane than a lot of other examples cited here.

I've never owned Ghillie Brogues, there have been times I was tempted but in the end a good quality Hoggs Brogue (personally and I know many might disagree but Brown for Daywear with Tweed and Black for formal evening wear) looks much better and less costume like in my opinion. As for Ghillie Boots I fail to see any point.

However I did think there's one glaring error with Ghillie Brogues from my perspective. They are all black. Whereas the evidence seems to point to a more wealthy individual wearing black buckle Brogues and the poorer people (or perhaps also wealthy people in the context of if they were out on the hills) wearing either nothing or Curranes depending on their needs. Therefore to me if Ghillie Brogues should be any colour to be truly authentic it should probably be brown (or even Suede if we accept a rawhide shoe with the fur on the inside rather than outside) and their use should probably be confined to day wear outside whilst wearing tweed and a more formal black Brogues for evening and formal events.

Discuss.

[Troglodyte]

The responses have been interesting.

Leaving aside the points regarding antiquity or close similarity to ancient rustic footwear (charges which can be levelled at all forms of current footwear) it appears that it is much more about what others might think than the shoe itself.

Various illustrations from the past 200 years show ghillies in different forms, but seem to be revivalist, or post-revivalist, origin for the most part. Can it not be argued that ghillies are as old and as genuine Highland wear as anything seen from that era or later?

Dare I say that they are as genuine Highland (having been developed solely for wear with Highland dress) as the modern kilt itself? If antiquity is the measure, ghillies are more authentic than the tweed or barathea coatees that are now universal, not to mention the likes of the Prince Charlie doublet. No..?

If you would otherwise wear them if the laces were 'normal' is the answer not to hange the laces - or simply cut them short?

As for not being proper Highland dress, what else can they possibly be? It is what they were designed for, and worn as from the start, surely.

Each to their own, and all that, and no-one really cares if you want to wear English 20th century styles with the kilt (like some how-to books encourage), but it is a daring thing to argue that English Oxford toecaps made for the city gent are more appropriate with the kilt than a Highland brogue.

So how's this for a challenge. If you don't like ghillies for yourself (regardless of reason) would you deny them to others. Are they something the dreaded Kilt-Kops should confiscate and ban..?

[Allan Thomson]

Well you will note I said Hoggs Brogues not oxford toecap. Hoggs are based in Fife so Scottish enough for me (I can't think of any Highland based shoe making companies).

It is fair to say a tradition has been set and anyone can wear what they want. But personally it is quality that sets "Kilt owner with a family tradition" apart from "Hired a kilt and had to be told everything look". Obviously there are some great hire companies.

But given a choice from plastic molded sole Ghillies possibly made in China or Pakistan vs Leather Soled brogues (in Black or Brown for the reason I've said above) then give me the Leather Soled (even if it has rubber protectors stuck on it by a good quality cobbler) conventional brogues vs Plastic and Rubber Soled "Ghillies"..

No slight to Kilt Hire companies either. I know one lady who makes kilts to a great standard who also has a hire business. Talking to her she said at times she had done all she could to ensure correct fit and guidance but sometimes it had all gone out of the window on the day and she had no way to manage that once it had gone out of the ship.

[Troglodyte]

Well you will note I said Hoggs

I sure did!

Hoggs' quality has been right up at the top with the best of them for decades - I understand their shoes were (perhaps still are) made by Cheaney. Hand-made bench-grade, in other words. And I speak with more than 30 years' hands-on (or rather feet-in) experience.

Quality of materials and workmanship are crucial elements for making a choice, and Sanders' regimental ghillies are possibly the best on the market for those reasons, and are a ghillie version of their (army issue) full brogue, for want of a better term, with nicely textured Scotch grain uppers.

It would seem a pity if a kiltie really wanted a pair of ghillies, but denied himself the pleasure out of fear of what he thinks someone he may never meet or talk to, would happen to think of his choice.

My initial query was to guage how much resentment of ghillies was based on real personal dislike or imagined others' disapproval. No judgement is involved either way.

[Jock Scot]

I sure did!

Hoggs' quality has been right up at the top with the best of them for decades - I understand their shoes were (perhaps still are) made by Cheaney. Hand-made bench-grade, in other words. And I speak with more than 30 years' hands-on (or rather feet-in) experience.

Quality of materials and workmanship are crucial elements for making a choice, and Sanders' regimental ghillies are possibly the best on the market for those reasons, and are a ghillie version of their (army issue) full brogue, for want of a better term, with nicely textured Scotch grain uppers.

It would seem a pity if a kiltie really wanted a pair of ghillies, but denied himself the pleasure out of fear of what he thinks someone he may never meet or talk to, would happen to think of his choice.

My initial query was to guage how much resentment of ghillies was based on real personal dislike or imagined others' disapproval. No judgement is involved either way.

On an open forum such as this, where reasonable comment is actively encouraged, is one thing, but to make those same comments in public is entirely another matter altogether and is where more discretion should be brought to the fore.

[Jock Scot]

I too am a regular user of Hoggs footwear and have been for decades.

[OC Richard]

In the Manx Museum's folk life gallery there's a pair of Goat Skin Curranes that was made around 100 years ago (I need to date check they could even be 19th C) for an antiquarian by a man who had learned the skills to make them from his predecessors and then made them regularly until they were replaced by more modern shoes in a village that still spoke Gaelic in the early Century. They were made with the hair on the outside which points to their authenticity as being more authentically closer to the style in which they were made traditionally. Given the close historical connections between Mann and the Western Isles personally I feel this shoes probably is closer to a Highland Currane than a lot of other examples cited here.

That's really cool. Generally things in museums have little or no provenance (Dr Hugh Cheape formerly with National Museums Scotland drives this point home) so having such a clear provenance is super. Comparing these shoes with the Aran pamputai would give an impression as to earlier pan-Gaelic footwear dovetailing nicely with John Elder's 1542 description.

There's one glaring error with Ghillie Brogues from my perspective. They are all black.

Thistle Shoes (Scotland) does offer them in polished brown leather, and brown Ghillies are starting to get more popular in the piping world.

But for sure when we look the Ghillies in The Highlanders Of Scotland all but one pair are tan roughout leather, which suggests that at that time they were regarded as a rustic shoe.



However Victorian photos almost always show shiny Ghillies, apparently black, so who can say.

[Wandering Spark]

That's really cool. Generally things in museums have little or no provenance (Dr Hugh Cheape formerly with National Museums Scotland drives this point home) so having such a clear provenance is super. Comparing these shoes with the Aran pamputai would give an impression as to earlier pan-Gaelic footwear dovetailing nicely with John Elder's 1542 description.

But for sure when we look the Ghillies in The Highlanders Of Scotland all but one pair are tan roughout leather, which suggests that at that time they were regarded as a rustic shoe.

Some Scottish cuarans or rivlins (the Scots name)
sealskin rivlins comp.jpg
Top to bottom: sealskin rivlins at the Scalloway Museum, Shetland made in 1880.
Rivlin from Shetland at the NMS, made in the 1870s.
Rivlins from North Ronaldsay, date unknown.

I'm not convinced that Victorian era Scots regarded the ghillie brogue as a rustic shoe. I've looked at a bunch of photos and paintings from the mid-19th c. of Scots hunting and fishing. They are nearly always wearing either boots or basic brogues.

William Duff w grandson c1880.jpg
c.1880 William Duff fishing with his grandson. This the same William Duff who's wearing basic brogues and holding a fishing pole in The Highlanders Of Scotland.


William Duff again, in an 1844 painting by Charles Landseer

photo of Peel Ross Fishing c.1856 in double toe-cap brogues

photo of Peel Ross with Horse after a Hunt c.1856 in basic brogues

1850 painting of a Highlander hunting in toecap brogues by Edwin Landseer

1861 painting by Rosa Bonheur of a ghillie in shawl-tongue brogues leading two reluctant Shetland ponies

The only exception I have seen to this is this 1854 painting of ghillie John Macdonald salmon leistering with Princes Edward and Alfred. I suspect that if your work day required chaperoning the Prince of Wales, you might choose to dress a bit more formally than you ordinarily did.

Also, I've never worn ghillie brogues, but they don't seem like they would be very practical for running around the Highlands. Wouldn't you constantly be getting bits of heather caught in them?