Badge Instead of Kilt Pin?

[Jock Scot]

To that point, I wondered about wearing the strap and buckle of a clan to which I claim a connection, however, did not claim any allegiance to the clan head. Rocky said it was unlikely I would be anywhere it was a consideration. Fast forward to now, another related group is working to gain recognized clan status and I am interested in attending the founding meeting in Scotland where this becomes official. I take oaths and such seriously. Am I over thinking this?

I think that generally you are overthinking this, but--------and here comes the tricky bit!

Some would say that as the USA claimed independence from the UK, including Scotland many many years ago, so to my mind and others, you as a citizen of the USA are not likely to be bound by taking oaths to a Scottish Clan.

Alright, perhaps I and others here in the UK are wrong? But ------------------?

[RGM1]

I think that generally you are overthinking this, but--------and here comes the tricky bit!

Some would say that as the USA claimed independence from the UK, including Scotland many many years ago, so to my mind and others, you as a citizen of the USA are not likely to be bound by taking oaths to a Scottish Clan.

Alright, perhaps I and others here in the UK are wrong? But ------------------?

My sense is that my ancestors in the Carolina militia made their position as disloyal subjects quite clear. While we still view Britain and the royal family in a very positive light, our first loyalties are elsewhere.

[Jock Scot]

My sense is that my ancestors in the Carolina militia made their position as disloyal subjects quite clear. While we still view Britain and the royal family in a very positive light, our first loyalties are elsewhere.

That, I quite understand.

[OC Richard]

...gain recognized clan status...I take oaths and such seriously.

An oath to whom?

Vowing to do what?

[RGM1]

My point exactly. What does the strap and buckle represent in modern times.

[Jock Scot]

My point exactly. What does the strap and buckle represent in modern times.

Without delving into too much detail, The strap and buckle is a heraldic device, that is still in use and is relevant in the UK that allows a person without a family crest to wear the badge quite legally in the UK. So, for example if you wear a Clan MacOnion tartan and wear the clan cap badge with your Chief's crest within strap and buckle, then you are doing so quite legally.

If, for example, a crest is worn within a plain circle(no buckle) of silver(usually) then you are looking at the owner of that crest and as such he/she is the one entitled-----he/she actually owns the right to do so------ that is, to wear his/her badge that way.

Its just one of those subtle ways of letting people know who is whom.

[Tomo]

The strap and buckle is a heraldic device, that is still in use and is relevant in the UK that allows a person without a family crest to wear the badge quite legally in the UK.

Interestingly, well maybe to some, I did some research about 20 years ago on the usurpation of arms for one of my clients at the time (one of the Cambridge colleges). In England such matters are determined by His Majesty's High Court of Chivalry. The court has been in existence since the fourteenth century, but last sat in 1954 in a case between Manchester Corporation and Manchester Palace of Varieties Ltd - the first decision for the court was whether or not it still existed and, if so, if it still had authority to rule on the matter - as it had not sat since 1737 - the answer was yes on both counts - the court then found in favour of Manchester Corporation.

In Scotland such matters fall to the Lyon Court, which is significantly more active than its English counterpart. The misappropriation or unauthorised use a coat of arms is considered a 'real injury' under Scottish common law, so an owner of a Scottish coat of arms can obtain a judicial order against anybody using his arms. In the addition, the Crown also has an interest in these cases as the fees on the registration of armorial bearings and pedigrees are payable to HM Treasury and cases are sometimes prosecuted in the same way as other tax avoidance matters.