All in the (Robertson) Family (the tartan, not the TV comedy)

[Jock Scot]

Although I was aware that my dad had a Robertson Red (modern) kilt, and borrowed my sister's kilt version of the "same" tartan during my college years attempting to actually PLAY the pipes, it wasn't until my sister sent me a picture of her, my dad, the clan chieftain, and two other ladies at a clan gathering in Pitlochry they had attended together several years earlier that I had ANY idea that there was more than just ONE variant of Robertson Red, and even when handed several swatch books to study when buying my own first kilt back in 2016 at Wm Glen & Son just off Union Square in SF the nature of or reasons for those differences didn't even register. But by then I knew that the Red (modern) was just TOO MUCH RED for me, so that kilt was Robertson Ancient Hunting.

I don't think that you would be alone with those thoughts when choosing a tartan, Doc..

[OC Richard]

I spent last weekend at the Woodland Highland Games. (It rained on and off all weekend, feeling much more like the Games in Scotland than our California variety.)

At the Clan Robertson booth I had a nice chat with the knowledgeable gent about various Robertson tartans, the various sett-sizes and colour-schemes. He favoured the Hunting in the Dalgliesh "reproduction" colours, his kilt was really nice.

He had a sample-book with a large number of Robertson tartan variants. Interestingly none of the Robertson Red tartans had the white stripe.

What really caught my eye was that one of his samples looked very much like my made-up-on-the-spot "attenuated" version at left below. I created that simply to demonstrate the concept, but there it was! Some mill at some point was actually weaving it like that.

However the one in the sample-book also had a wider space between the pair of narrow green stripes on the red field, a change I didn't do on my creation at left below.

[jsrnephdoc]

I spent last weekend at the Woodland Highland Games. (It rained on and off all weekend, feeling much more like the Games in Scotland than our California variety.)

At the Clan Robertson booth I had a nice chat with the knowledgeable gent about various Robertson tartans, the various sett-sizes and colour-schemes. He favoured the Hunting in the Dalgliesh "reproduction" colours, his kilt was really nice.

He had a sample-book with a large number of Robertson tartan variants. Interestingly none of the Robertson Red tartans had the white stripe.

What really caught my eye was that one of his samples looked very much like my made-up-on-the-spot "attenuated" version at left below. I created that simply to demonstrate the concept, but there it was! Some mill at some point was actually weaving it like that.

However the one in the sample-book also had a wider space between the pair of narrow green stripes on the red field, a change I didn't do on my creation at left below.

Thanks so much for ALL of that. My wife is/was a "Valley Girl," but if it's not near an airport I have little concept of LA/SD geography. I'll have to look up the location of those Woodland Games, if there's a big enough "Robertson" contingent to generate an actual booth. At the games I've attended (in 4 different locations) I've yet to see another Robertson kilt, let alone a booth. And, if the location is close to where my spouse grew up it would not be difficult for me to convince her it's time for a mid-Spring reunion with some of her old friends.

Did you compete as a piper?

But as to the "white line" Robertson red, it IS in the SRT, and Peter MacDonald has told me he's actually SEEN some fabric (but with the white line created in silk). Because the brief notes on the SRT website mention that it might have been woven on request for the exclusive use of an early 19th century clan chieftain and his immediate family, I've realized perhaps I should ask people who should know, so yesterday I wrote to the administrator of the Clan Donnachaidh website to ask whether, if I could find someone to weave it, would wearing it to a clan gathering offend anyone (I'd hate to find myself on the business end of a Claymore or exiled to "the Colonies" via somebody's wayback machine).

I appreciate your going to your tartan generator software. I can't IMAGINE ever mastering or abusing something like that, but what strikes me most about the images you've posted for my benefit is that if someone walked by me wearing one of those (at least the way it appears on my monitor) I wouldn't even RECOGNIZE it as "Robertson." I have an old (but decent) computer monitor, and when I go to clothing retailer's, registry, or mill sites, the red displayed on my screen is exactly what I've borrowed from my sister, worn in neckties in my childhood, and avoided in my senior citizen purchases as just TOO MUCH RED. That's going to generate another post (about "electronic swatches" and their (perhaps unnecessary) limitations.

[figheadair]

But as to the "white line" Robertson red, it IS in the SRT, and Peter MacDonald has told me he's actually SEEN some fabric (but with the white line created in silk). Because the brief notes on the SRT website mention that it might have been woven on request for the exclusive use of an early 19th century clan chieftain and his immediate family, I've realized perhaps I should ask people who should know, so yesterday I wrote to the administrator of the Clan Donnachaidh website to ask whether, if I could find someone to weave it, would wearing it to a clan gathering offend anyone (I'd hate to find myself on the business end of a Claymore or exiled to "the Colonies" via somebody's wayback machine).

There is no evidence to support the note on the SRT about the inclusion of the white line. There is a similar situation with the Fraser tartans and I suspect that in this case, as with those, it was Wilsons of Bannockburn that produced a showier version to appeal to the public. The while line version was worn in a suit (jacket, trews and plaid) worn by Alexander Irivine-Robertson in 1822. Whether he asked for the design or bought it because it already existed we will probably never know but with in a few years it was a regular feature of sample books of Wilsons' cloth. This one is dated 1833.



And around the same time this outfit was made for a man in Nairn.



Given the commercial use of this tartan for some 200 years it would be regrettable if the Clan Society/the Chief sought to restrict it now.

[jsrnephdoc]

There is no evidence to support the note on the SRT about the inclusion of the white line. There is a similar situation with the Fraser tartans and I suspect that in this case, as with those, it was Wilsons of Bannockburn that produced a showier version to appeal to the public. The while line version was worn in a suit (jacket, trews and plaid) worn by Alexander Irivine-Robertson in 1822. Whether he asked for the design or bought it because it already existed we will probably never know but with in a few years it was a regular feature of sample books of Wilsons' cloth. This one is dated 1833.



And around the same time this outfit was made for a man in Nairn.



Given the commercial use of this tartan for some 200 years it would be regrettable if the Clan Society/the Chief sought to restrict it now.

Peter, I'm often AMAZED that someone possessed of your integrated knowledge is SO gracious as to entertain and answer queries from uninformed but curious people such as I. Thank you so VERY much.

And of course, I was joking about the wayback machine funding a stance below a claymore or a funding of a trip to the Colonies

But I cannot resist addressing you as an informed critic AS WELL AS an historian, because your post suggests that you wonder whether Wilsons may have "made up" the White Line variant as a means to generate more pedestrian or broader appeal. Can that be taken as an inference that it doesn't appeal to your so-well-trained eye?

[geomick]

the whole idea of "clan tartans" was devised by the mills as a way to sell more cloth (no, you all have to be dressed in this pattern, which just happens to be for sale over here)



(it worked)

[jsrnephdoc]

the whole idea of "clan tartans" was devised by the mills as a way to sell more cloth (no, you all have to be dressed in this pattern, which just happens to be for sale over here)

But, apparently, not without at least some encouragement from at least some clan chieftains…

And, the mills are still at it. Witness the novel appearance of new color ways labeled as "ancient colors" or "weathered" or (insert your favorite adjective). Entirely understandable, of course. After all, the mills are not registered charities.

[figheadair]

the whole idea of "clan tartans" was devised by the mills as a way to sell more cloth (no, you all have to be dressed in this pattern, which just happens to be for sale over here) (it worked)

No quite. The concept of clan tartans was introduced by the Highland Society of London in 1815 as part of their attempt to preserve elements of Highland culture, including piping and the Gaelic language, that were being lost. The fact that there had never been clan tartans was overlooked in the rusk to 'do something' before it was too late.

It is certainly the case that mills later picked on this but much of it was driven by customer demand.

[figheadair]

But I cannot resist addressing you as an informed critic AS WELL AS an historian, because your post suggests that you wonder whether Wilsons may have "made up" the White Line variant as a means to generate more pedestrian or broader appeal. Can that be taken as an inference that it doesn't appeal to your so-well-trained eye?

No, that would an incorrect interpretation. I offered an opinion on the origin of the design but not on the design itself which is similar to a number of historical (18th century) tartans. In the right proportions (Wilsons'), it is an attractive tartan.

[FossilHunter]

But, apparently, not without at least some encouragement from at least some clan chieftains…

And, the mills are still at it. Witness the novel appearance of new color ways labeled as "ancient colors" or "weathered" or (insert your favorite adjective). Entirely understandable, of course. After all, the mills are not registered charities.

To be fair there’s been over 200 years to cement the tradition of clan tartans whether it had a historical basis or not.

As long as people don’t get too religious about it I don’t see the harm. I think the real problem comes from people scolding others about the importance of clan tartan or salesmen at games taking advantage of the ignorant with fanciful/romantic stories. You know what they say, a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing! ;)