All in the (Robertson) Family (the tartan, not the TV comedy)

[jsrnephdoc]

There is no evidence to support the note on the SRT about the inclusion of the white line. There is a similar situation with the Fraser tartans and I suspect that in this case, as with those, it was Wilsons of Bannockburn that produced a showier version to appeal to the public. The while line version was worn in a suit (jacket, trews and plaid) worn by Alexander Irivine-Robertson in 1822. Whether he asked for the design or bought it because it already existed we will probably never know but with in a few years it was a regular feature of sample books of Wilsons' cloth. This one is dated 1833.



And around the same time this outfit was made for a man in Nairn.



Given the commercial use of this tartan for some 200 years it would be regrettable if the Clan Society/the Chief sought to restrict it now.

Peter, I'm often AMAZED that someone possessed of your integrated knowledge is SO gracious as to entertain and answer queries from uninformed but curious people such as I. Thank you so VERY much.

And of course, I was joking about the wayback machine funding a stance below a claymore or a funding of a trip to the Colonies

But I cannot resist addressing you as an informed critic AS WELL AS an historian, because your post suggests that you wonder whether Wilsons may have "made up" the White Line variant as a means to generate more pedestrian or broader appeal. Can that be taken as an inference that it doesn't appeal to your so-well-trained eye?

[geomick]

the whole idea of "clan tartans" was devised by the mills as a way to sell more cloth (no, you all have to be dressed in this pattern, which just happens to be for sale over here)



(it worked)

[jsrnephdoc]

the whole idea of "clan tartans" was devised by the mills as a way to sell more cloth (no, you all have to be dressed in this pattern, which just happens to be for sale over here)

But, apparently, not without at least some encouragement from at least some clan chieftains…

And, the mills are still at it. Witness the novel appearance of new color ways labeled as "ancient colors" or "weathered" or (insert your favorite adjective). Entirely understandable, of course. After all, the mills are not registered charities.

[FossilHunter]

But, apparently, not without at least some encouragement from at least some clan chieftains…

And, the mills are still at it. Witness the novel appearance of new color ways labeled as "ancient colors" or "weathered" or (insert your favorite adjective). Entirely understandable, of course. After all, the mills are not registered charities.

To be fair there’s been over 200 years to cement the tradition of clan tartans whether it had a historical basis or not.

As long as people don’t get too religious about it I don’t see the harm. I think the real problem comes from people scolding others about the importance of clan tartan or salesmen at games taking advantage of the ignorant with fanciful/romantic stories. You know what they say, a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing! ;)

[jsrnephdoc]

To be fair there’s been over 200 years to cement the tradition of clan tartans whether it had a historical basis or not.

As long as people don’t get too religious about it I don’t see the harm. I think the real problem comes from people scolding others about the importance of clan tartan or salesmen at games taking advantage of the ignorant with fanciful/romantic stories. You know what they say, a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing! ;)

When I purchased my first kilt a decade ago (at Wm Glen & Son in San Francisco), my encounter with the store, off the tony Union Square shopping district was entirely accidental. I owned Argyll and Prince Charlie jackets I'd inherited from my dad upon his death a decade earlier, but they'd languished in my closet because he was much taller AND larger amidships than I. Yes, I had Robertson Red and Hunting tartan neckties, and had inherited a few books on tartan and Burns poem anthologies, but I knew almost nothing about the actually lineage of my family name or the history of tartan or even the history of Scotland (I'd been to the Edinburgh Castle Museum in 2002, but there I'd gotten the impression that the Scots still harbored a belief that they just needed one more shot with their Claymores, Dirks, and Sgian Dubhs against "the English" and they'd rectify their unjust subjugation. Jock has certainly helped rectify that misperception.


I love the Robertson Ancient Hunting tartan kilt I purchased there back in 2016, but it's now MUCH too large, thanks to the Ozempic that's vanquished my diabetes. As the thread starter mentions, I've never been a fan of the "too much RED," Robertson Red (modern) tartan woven by almost all the major mills, but I remembered looking at many swatch books when I bought my kilt, so yesterday, back in CA for a visit with friends, we went in to the shop to think about which mill might interpose that bordered white stripe in a custom weave of the Robertson Red (white line) that I THINK I like based on looking at "electronic" swatches.


The exterior of the shop hasn't changed, but inside it's DRAMATICALLY different. Highlands Wear CLEARLY is no longer their business. Yes, there are a few Argylls and PCs languishing on coat hangers, and, yes, they still have a few swatch books from major mills. But 80% (or more) of the display space is now devoted to whisky, whiskeys, and other distilled spirits. The staff no longer wear kilts. Their KNOWLEDGE of highlands wear is meager even in comparison to my own fragmentary comprehension.


But, if whisky is what you seek, they're your guys.

[SF Jeff]

Too bad about Wm Glen. I bought my first kilt from them and I used to sort of hangout there, as I worked a few blocks away on Montgomery and would sometimes take a long lunch and browse the store. They carried a wide variety of goods back then and highland wear took up a lot of floor and wall space. They also had a sizeable kilt rental business and did alterations and repairs.

The whisky shop was in a small room in the back that had a sliding glass door separating it from the main store. It was run by someone else who I think just rented the space and it was not part of Wm Glen proper. They had tastings every weekend if I recall, but I was in the city M-F only so I never went to one.

I haven't been there in ages but it sounds like it's on the decline perhaps? Their website has a fair selection of items, so maybe the bulk of their business is done online now.

[OC Richard]

I've probably mentioned this before, but every year Glen sets up a big booth at the Caledonian Club of San Francisco Highland Games (now held in Pleasanton) and they have a big range of Highland Dress there.

But when I visited their San Francisco shop there was little evidence of that sort of thing.

It's interesting that their two iterations are so different.

[jsrnephdoc]

Too bad about Wm Glen.


I haven't been there in ages but it sounds like it's on the decline perhaps? Their website has a fair selection of items, so maybe the bulk of their business is done online now.

Well, it seems clear from floor space that their main business now is whisky (and whiskey, including bourbon, Canadian, and Irish, and probably others.

They still sell attire, glassware, ties, etc., but obviously it's no longer their main source of income. I don't know where kilts ordered from them are made, but they're also very expensive. The stunner for me was when I asked to see swatches from House of Edgar's Genesis collection I was met with a blank stare, and they had no idea what the Glen Affric tartan was.

But, I'll bet they know a LOT about whisky.

[Jock Scot]

To be fair there’s been over 200 years to cement the tradition of clan tartans whether it had a historical basis or not.

As long as people don’t get too religious about it I don’t see the harm. I think the real problem comes from people scolding others about the importance of clan tartan or salesmen at games taking advantage of the ignorant with fanciful/romantic stories. You know what they say, a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing! ;)

I quite agree. We,....well alright, I see it as, wilful blindness and wishful thinking, almost everyday on this website. It's unfortunate for sure and I suppose it's mostly harmless. We are all guilty of doing so on occasion, including me. However, ........................not a lot can be done about it. As my mother used to say in these situations; "If wishes were horses the devil would ride."

[OC Richard]

...salesmen at Games taking advantage of the ignorant with fanciful/romantic stories.

I heard the story, maybe too good not to be true, about the shopkeeper in Scotland who, when an American tourist asked after a necktie in a "clan tartan" that didn't exist, grabbed a badly faded tie that had been sitting in the display window for years and handed it to the tourist saying "oh we just happen to have a tie in that tartan here in the window!"