Dressed To Kilt

[Dreadbelly]

It is said that William Wallace would "fence" with his sword. If you have ever seen it, you will notice that it has no secondary grip. EEP!

Must have been a STRONG fella.

As for a fencer vs a claymore or bastard sword swinging Scot, I would put money on the Scot. Yeah, he might get stuck 1 or 4 times, but that would only serve to piss him off something fierce.

[Doc Hudson]

If I remember correctly, Wallace's Sword had a two-hand hilt. A strong man with good coordination can really make a two-hand sword sing.

[Yaish]

Even on a two handed sword or a claymore without a ricasso (that second handle) they were often used in a technique called 'half-swording'. Even a sharp sword can be held by the blade with decent gloves and used in all sorts of ways a fencer would never have thought of.

Fencing evolved as an answer to fighting in narrow, crowded city streets which we would consider alleys today. There simply wasnt room for any sort of swinging manuevers, just thrusts. As the style became more common you could see the swords evolve from cut and thrust swords, to mainly thrusting swords, to true rapiers, and finally to small swords.

Now two handed swords were not properly used as just swinging, bashing weapons. Rather they had a school of swordsmanship all their own that has a pedigree going back hundreds of years longer than the rapier or any school of fencing. During that time some ferociously efficient guard positions came about, and with the great weight and reach of a two handed sword it could probably deflect even the fast rapier long enough for a telling blow.

BTW rapiers and small swords snapped all the time when struck at the weak, or near the tip. Against a full swing from a sword such as in the ad I dont think even blocking at the strong would save the blade, nor the man underneath.

[Angus]

Anybody have any links to support their theory's? Im not trying to make you "put your money where your mouth is", I just want some further reading. This stuff really fascinated me, I never thought there would be such a topic here on X. This is great.
I saw the history channel do some mock broadsword fighting and they did grip the blade and swing and swoop and more or less use that sword in ways I would've never imagined a sword could be used. They even used it like a sledge hammer holding the blade and hitting the opponent with the hilt and crossguard.
I dont know of anybody that still practices that style, do you?

[Doc Hudson]

Angus the only folks I know who practice extensively with the two-handed swords are the gents at the Royal Armory you saw on the History Channel.

There are more than one type of two-handed and hand-and-a-half swords. Some have a handgrip below the crosshilt, and some don't.

I am not well enough trained in fencing to explain all the ins and outs of rapier or small sword versus broadsword, but they are used in vastly different ways, and both are quite effective it the swordsman knows his trade and has the determination to press an attack intelligently.

If I can find any sites to compare the two fighting styles, I will post them here.

[GMan]

Is this why the event is called Dressed to Kilt?

[Yaish]

Probably the best, most historically accurate site I have found dealing with swords and sword fighting is
www.thearma.org

Sometimes their smarmy attitude gets to me, like the kilt nazis that insist you must be scottish and wear the kilt like such and such, but the info is good.

For a quick look at some of the stances I talked about check here http://www.thearma.org/essays/StancesIntro.htm and you can see that the swords were used in a much different style than just 'swing and bash'.

If you'll look here you can see some of the pictures show the half-swording I was talking about.
http://www.thearma.org/HEMA.htm
In addition you'll see some of the examples of just how many ways a two handed sword can be used offensively.

[Riverkilt]

Old old old....the only person in that series of pics I've ever heard of is the old guy Ted Turner...who are these people??

So weird that they're some sort of media darlings yet when I look at them they're just ordinary people...making some wild attempts to be "kilted."

Only thing I know about the swordplay is that I fenced in college as a muscular youth and can't recall anything more physically demanding than waving around the foil...from that experience I can't comprehend the strength needed to pick up the broadsword, let alone, swing it at someone with any sense of accuracy...yikes!!

Best I could do with a broadsword would be to whip off my kilt, swing it around the other guy's foil, then while he worked to untangle the kilt from the foil, tip the broadsword over on him so the handle clunked him in the head.

Ron

[Galant]

Personally I think the evolution of the sword speaks for itself - progressively moving to lighter and quicker. What's more, as I understand it, large broadswords and claymores are battle swords not duelling swords. I still think that a duellist with a rapier would have it. We can talk about blocking strength but the point is that the wielder of the claymore has first to get it to where he can swing it. Fencing is all about NOT telegraphing your moves since your opponent will see it coming.

A speedy, well trained duellist will, if he cannot block a blow, avoid it, and then for all the time it took our giant of a friend to swing one blow, he could reply with several.

Speed and skill almost always win out over size and strength.

Getting back to the main topic, I don't know about the rest of you, but I really cannot stand those new, 'fashionable' styles, which look like guys wearing pieces of cloth hanging off them, or girls wearing those tiny tartan 'belts' or overly tight outfits. One thing I love about kilts is their well crafted and flowing but crisp look. On women, kilted skirts look good because they don't appear as though the tailor ran out of material or was rationed.

The other thing that ticks me off with fashion shows in general is that a lot of the stuff is just daft - it either looks completely silly or is utterly impractical or both!

[Yaish]

Remember though Galant, swords didnt evolve in a vacuum. Rapiers and small swords were developed for a very particular set of circumstances, that being fighting in very tight confines in an urban environment against and unarmored foe.

Rapier type swords never made it to the battlefield, rather it was sabers, backswords, and other cut and thrust types that ruled there. I think you'd be very surprised just how quite a two handed or even hand and an half sword can be also. They were made balanced and could dance in and out very quickly.

Utltimately though they were two completely different swords made for completely different environments. I think in the final equation it would come down to the skill of the swordsman more than to which type of blade they were using.

Now, back to kilts. I'm almost disconcerted seeing kilts becoming so 'fashionable'. They've survived as is for centuries and done just fine, and even things like Utilikilts are coming at the kilt from a practical angle, not pure fashion.
Once the fashion industry gets ahold of it they run to current fads, things that get dated quickly. Rarely is the quality or comfort there in order to make them truly worthwhile garments.

I hope they never get so popular that you can get one at any of the mass market chain stores. Once that happens the kilt as we know it will be over.