Fraser and Kirkbright: experiences with their tartan

[Alan H]

If you have experience with tartan material from Fraser and Kirkbright, please tell us your thoughts in this thread.

NOTE: a visit to their website and/or to their US Distributors website (http://www.thescottishweaver.com) will suggest that they only produce a lighter weight 10.5 - 11 ounce tartan. However , if you look closely at the F & K website, you'll see that they custom weave in heavier weights.

[Colin]

As I have said a few times, I have been completely happy with all my dealings with Fraser & Kirkbright. Gordon Kirkbright took the time to answer all my questions, and was very accomadatiing. I have some 14oz wool from them, and it is really quite nice. I look forward to making it into a really nice kilt soon.

[Thistle Stop]

In the US, Fraser & Kirkbright are represented by Peter Wilson of The Scottish Weaver and Great Scot International. All US dealings with the mill go through him, in North Carolina. If you want to phone him, the number is 1-888-PLAIDES.

I haven't spoken with him yet -- he phoned me but we were out at the time. But since he's a third-party representative for F & K, I don't think I will be able to negotiate anything with him, for a lower minimum yardage or a lower price. His retail minimum for a custom weave job is 10 yards, as shown on his site -- I don't know if that's for a job by F & K or another source. The retail prices are shown here. It says in the price list that the prices do not include Customs duty (if any) or shipping.

It looks as if we will need to use one of our own X Marks kiltmakers, or someone else based in Canada, if we want to deal directly with F & K mill for the job. Otherwise, we can go through Wilson for it. Or use a different mill.

[Colin]

In the US, Fraser & Kirkbright are represented by Peter Wilson of The Scottish Weaver and Great Scot International. All US dealings with the mill go through him, in North Carolina. If you want to phone him, the number is 1-888-PLAIDES.

I haven't spoken with him yet -- he phoned me but we were out at the time. But since he's a third-party representative for F & K, I don't think I will be able to negotiate anything with him, for a lower minimum yardage or a lower price. His retail minimum for a custom weave job is 10 yards, as shown on his site -- I don't know if that's for a job by F & K or another source. The retail prices are shown here. It says in the price list that the prices do not include Customs duty (if any) or shipping.

It looks as if we will need to use one of our own X Marks kiltmakers, or someone else based in Canada, if we want to deal directly with F & K mill for the job. Otherwise, we can go through Wilson for it. Or use a different mill.

Just give Gorndon Kirkbright a quick shout at http://www.wooltartans.com/contact.htm

[beerbecue]

I have purchased several poly/wool remnants from F&K, and Gordon is a very cordial person. I have not gone through The Scottish Weaver, as the mark-up is ridiculous.

If it was an individual purchase, why couldn't you go straight through to the source??

[Thistle Stop]

I phoned Gordon and left a message on the voicemail, but the call was returned by Peter Wilson at The Scottish Weaver. It says on the F&K site that their US sales go through Peter. But perhaps if we could get through to Gordon directly he would deal with us anyway.

[Alan H]

We have an ace in our pocket, Canadian "in" with Fraser and Kirkbright that bypasses the Scottish Weaver. I'm also researching what the customs & duty is from ENgland to Canada for woolen goods.

[beerbecue]

I phoned Gordon and left a message on the voicemail, but the call was returned by Peter Wilson at The Scottish Weaver.

Personally, I have dealt only with Gordon directly. Perhaps because you are a retailer??

We have an ace in our pocket, Canadian "in" with Fraser and Kirkbright that bypasses the Scottish Weaver.

Well done!!

No need for middle-men!!!

[Thistle Stop]

We have an ace in our pocket, Canadian "in" with Fraser and Kirkbright that bypasses the Scottish Weaver. I'm also researching what the customs & duty is from ENgland to Canada for woolen goods.

That all sounds good. Does this mean you are now thinking of exporting the cloth from England to Canada, rather than to the US? Maybe the Commonwealth relationship will make a difference to the tariff -- hopefully!

I don't know anything about Canadian tariffs. But the following applies to US Customs, and the countries in question all use the Harmonized Tariff System, so I imagine there will be much that's the same about classifications of goods.

Remember in dealing with US Customs that they will not always classify something the same way they tell you they will! If you get a quotation on a rate, get the Harmonized Tariff Schedule classification (6- to 10-digit 'HS Number' -- the more digits you can get them to commit to, the better; the last 2 of 10 digits are specific to the import country) for that rate and be sure to tell the weaving mill to use that exact code when they fill out the Customs forms. Also keep in mind that there are brokerage fees in addition to the tariff -- if the package is sent by UPS, DHL, etc., you can possibly get them to give you a quote on the brokerage, but again, it may not be entirely reliable! And... it depends to some extent on the tariff charged. (Sort of a Catch-22 situation.)

I think Canadian textile goods are duty-free because of NAFTA. But the only textile produced in the UK that has any applicable special trade agreement is Harris Tweed.

If you bring textiles in from the UK, however, it's definitely not free! For some reason, upholstery fabrics come in cheaper than identical fabrics considered to be for other purposes. 13-oz. and 16-oz. tartan is suitable for upholstery and indeed is often used for such, so if you can get it classified that way, you'll be miles ahead (7% vs. 25% or more), unless the weight moves it to another class where upholstery material is not given a break. However, if the Customs agent that books them in considers the goods to be fungible with another class, they are just as likely to put them in that class and charge the higher rate.

I think the classification that could conceivably be the best, if they will accept it, is 'Carded Woven Tapestry/Upholstery Fabric >= 85% wool/F.A.H. > 300g/m sq.' (F.A.H. is 'fine animal hair'.) The HS number for that is 5111.19.10.00 and the rate is 7%. But if they decide it's not upholstery fabric, the rate goes to 25% or 28.30%, and can go as high as 68.5% under some conditions (I don't know what they are, so if anyone knows, please enlighten me!). Most likely they will classify it as 5112.19.60.50, 'Woven fabric of combed wool >= 85% wool/F.A.H. > 270g/m sq. <= 340g/m sq.', and that will make the duty 25%.

There are a lot of factors to be considered in classifying a product. With textiles, there is not only the fibre content (in exact proportions, if of mixed sources -- in some classes of wool fibres, even the breed of sheep is specified) but also the diameter of individual fibres in microns, the weight of the fabric in grams per square metre, the monetary value per kilogram, the intended use of the material, whether it's hand- or machine-woven, and the width of the loom, if hand-woven. The mill is not going to tell you all this, if they even know it, so it becomes somewhat of a guessing game -- not only what the content, etc., actually is, but what the agent who receives the shipment will consider it to be, and how the broker who is filing all the paperwork supports the documentation.

I'm not trying to present difficulties. Don't blame me, blame Customs!

I completely gave up on trying to find an HS code for importing a kilt. There are a zillion kinds of garments listed in the Schedule, but the kilt is not amongst them! Nor is there any way to classify it as a skirt for men. All skirts and skirt-like garments are classified as female attire. So, my kiltmaker sends me kilts individually by postal mail and we hope for the best!

Does anyone know if consignees in the UK and/or Australia get a break on the tariff and/or VAT on exports of Canada, since it's a Commonwealth country? If they do, then the best thing for Hamish, Graham, et al, to do is to have their kilts tailored in Canada.

If the big Scottish weaving houses had any sense, they'd band together, like the Harris Tweed industry did, to negotiate a special deal on the importation of tartan fabric to the US (and Canada, if necessary). They have a lot of sales in North America. If it were possible to get tartan classified as a free import, the wholesale cost of the product would go down 25% right off the bat.

[macgreggor]

god save us from bureaucrats!
a pox on all their houses
macG