Attitudes To The Kilt.

[Streetcar]

I'm looking at obtaining a traditional kilt, and this deals with my biggest question. I am impressed with the amount of information put forth here!

But so far, the message I'm getting is this - I do not have a Scottish surname, and do not have the genealogical research to track to a specific clan or sept.
Consequently, I should not wear the tartan of a particular clan...

Unless I want to...?

Are clan members really that protective that they would take offense at my wearing their tartan?

[bubba]

As a rule, no. Wear whatever tartan you like, just learn something about it.

[bikercelt1]

I should not wear the tartan of a particular clan... Unless I want to...?

Are clan members really that protective that they would take offense at my wearing their tartan?

This is the first time in a long time that anyone has made this assertion and the first time I've ever seen it made with such vehemence. The understanding most of us have is "know your tartan". If you know what tartan you're wearing and the affiliations/reputations are consistant with you then wear it. I'd be very comfortable following Matt's advice in this regard. The "Tartan Police" have never shown up on my doorstep to confiscate any of my kilts even though I have them in several different tartans. I get more flack from the local kilt wearers over my Utilikilts than my choice of tartans.

Jamie

[chasem]

I'm looking at obtaining a traditional kilt, and this deals with my biggest question. I am impressed with the amount of information put forth here!

But so far, the message I'm getting is this - I do not have a Scottish surname, and do not have the genealogical research to track to a specific clan or sept.
Consequently, I should not wear the tartan of a particular clan...

Unless I want to...?

Are clan members really that protective that they would take offense at my wearing their tartan?

I'm with the wear what you want crew. I would have no problem, myself, wearing another 'clan' tartan, however, I would at least know a little something about it, and the clan that it represents. Even just the basics, clan name, septs perhaps? As long as it's worn with respect, and you have at least a little background on it, I would think it would generally be seen as a sign of respect for that clan/tartan.

[Mike1]

Streetcar, I mentioned this in another thread but I feel it is worth mentioning again.

A tartan is a visible representation of a family name. If you are a good representative, while displaying that representation, then there is no harm done. It is all about respect.

Imagine somebody wearing a shirt with your surname emblazoned across the front and back in broad letters. Now, imagaine that individual committing a dishonorable act, thereby bringing shame to your family name.

This is a bit of a tangent, but it still deals with respect - I think we also need to remember that when people see us kilted in public, one of the most popular questions we are asked is, "Are you Scottish?" People associate the kilt with Scotland, in the same way they associate a yarmulka with Judaism, for instance. As one with Scottish heritage, I get a bit dismayed when I see some of the beyond-silly actions that some kilted fellows commit. I am most certainly NOT a fan of the "Scottish Pub Crawling Team" t-shirts, simply because the statement that it makes is that Scots are irresponsible drunks.

If we start trashing an entire culture with fashoin statements like that, what are we to expect in return?

Just because a member of an ethnic group does something in particular does not mean that every member of that ethnic group deserves to be painted with the same brush. Here, where I live, we are suddenly dealing with a lot of illegal Hispanic immigrants. Does that make every Hispanic in Indiana an illegal? To suggest that they are is racist.

I just checked and there is still no listing in the Yellow Pages for the Tartan Police. But I do hope that whatever tartan you choose to wear will be one you will wear honorably and respectfully. As has been suggested here, many times, know your tartan and wear it with pride.

[James]

Oh dear-I do seem to have lit the blue touchpaper!

However the fact is that all the elegent and erudite arguments are not of necessity replicated in the minds of some of those who consider themselves to be genuine clansfolk.

Further it is wrong to assert that all tartans are available to everyone: for example there is a tartan reserved to the British Royal Family, and another I know of, that is for the exclusive wear of my chief and his immediate family.

Too my mention of 'dress' appears to have caused some slight confusion: many clans have a 'dress tartan' which might be considered too colourful for day to day wear though fine for formal/evening wear: thus for day to day use they will have a less colourful tartan - oft called hunting. So when writing/speaking about a dress tartan, one is making reference to a tartan worn by men.

My reference to dress was in respect of a chap who turned up during the day at a gathering wearing white hose and shoes laced around the ankle: he being told to go and join the rest of the little girl dancers!

Too whilst it is true that many clan tartans were created/re-invented during the early years of the 19th century, there is evidence that some clans were wearing a common tartan earlier than that. Whilst there is an argument going on at the present time about the Government/Black Watch tartan, that it was in fact a clan tartan already being worn at the time, and adopted because so many members of the Highland Companies were of that clan.

Having written that, I want to make it quite clear that it is not my desire to inhibit anyone to dress as they wish, nor for that matter to deny the development of the kilt as a dynamic evolving garment. However as any soldier will know the studied elegance of an operation planned on a sand table, can easily fall; apart when someone starts shooting back. In the same way attitudes amongst clansfolk do not of necessity accord with some of the views I read in these forums.

I will close by making mention of an event from some years ago when we were organising a party: and someone suggested a recitation from Burns. Most would think: Scotland-Burns-ideal. No way, the response was 'we are a highland family and that lowlander is nothing to do with us': the outcome-no Burns.

James

[philibeg]

Just because some Highlanders feel a need to be exclusive does not mean that we kilt-lovers should care about their opinions. The world is full of snobs. If I am not welcome in the company of such folk I shall joyfully move on to Scotsmen more pleasant, less insecure and with a better historical persective. And thankfully, these more open-minded and generous souls are in the majority.

That some Highlanders should keep up their ancient disdain for Lowlanders is frankly absurd. Scotsmen must unite if they are to successfully tackle the great problems (Health! Employment! Devolution!) their country faces, and not wrap themselves up in plaids and reignite feuds which have long lost any basis in reality. WHAT ARE PEOPLE THINKING, THAT SCOTLAND CAN FREE IT SELF AND GO BACK TO THE CLAN SYSTEM? Its just silliness, and at a time when all hands need to be on deck!! Granted, at a private party any family may decide what is appropriate for them, and Burn's should no more be required for a Highlander's hootenanny than Baudelaire...but snobbery about Tartans and Highland culture is emblematic of devisions within Scotland itself that only inhibit its evolution towards a more vital, autononmous future.

However, it was not my intention to touch on this subject in this post, but rather to point out that Iceland retains the system of naming a child after its father: thus Magnus son of Magnus is called Magnus Magnusson, while his sister Gudrun is called Gudrun Magnusdottir. Seems to work fine for them....

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Thanks everyone for all the good feedback. I haven't checked this board since leaving work yesterday and I wanted to see if the flames have died down any. :-)

To respond to a few things:

But so far, the message I'm getting is this - I do not have a Scottish surname, and do not have the genealogical research to track to a specific clan or sept.

The choice of which tartan to wear is entirely personal, and your reasons for choosing a specific tartan may differ from someone else's. But it is good to have a reason, even if it is as simple as "I like the colors," because when people see you in the kilt, they will inevitably ask you about your tartan, and it is good to be prepared.

Remember this -- though there are no "rules of the kilt" as we have been discussing, tartan is representative. That means that in most people's eyes a tartan does in fact represent whatever it happens to be named after. So when you wear a tartan, you are in some way identifying yourself with whatever that tartan is named for.

In light of this, most people choose to wear a tartan that they feel personally identified with. This could be a tartan for your last name. It could be a tartan for a great-grandmother. Or a person you admire. Or a place your anscestors were from. Or a place you once lived, or currently live. Or an occupation you have.

Of course the reason "I am of Clan X and this is their tartan" is pretty straightforward. But there are others. My friend has a kilt in the Moffat tartan. He loved the colors. He wanted a kilt that was mainly black and grey, found a few options, and of those options decided he liked this tartan the best. He's not a Moffat, but he knows what tartan it is, and is respectful of that. When people ask him what tartan he is wearing, he says, "Clan Moffat." When people ask what clan he is from, he says, "Clan MacGregor, but this is the Moffat tartan I'm wearing."

If people want more details, he will tell them that he just especially liked the colors, and if people have time he will tell them how recent the idea of named tartans is, and how the Highlanders of old would simply select a tartan they liked from what was available and wear it. And he did the same!

So it can be an opportunity for education.

I have never once come across someone who was offended by a non-clan member wearing their tartan. Most don't care, and more than a few have been flattered that their tartan was thought so highly of. But if you are truly worried about it, there are plenty of non-clan tartans to choose from, as well. The important thing is to get a tartan you will enjoy wearing.

And just a couple of comments for James:

Further it is wrong to assert that all tartans are available to everyone: for example there is a tartan reserved to the British Royal Family, and another I know of, that is for the exclusive wear of my chief and his immediate family.

You are probably referring to the Balmoral tartan, as restricted to the Royal Family. I would only note that this restriction is one of custom only. If I wanted to weave some up and wear it as a kilt, no one could fine me or anything, though many would think it was horribly rude. But this isn't really a consideration for most becaue the Balmoral tartan is not generally available. Because its use is so restricted, if you wanted any of it, you would have to get it custom woven. So it's not like someone is going to purchase it unawares.

Some people attempt to make the same claim for the Royal Stewart tartan -- that it is restricted to the Royal Family. Well, if that was the case, then how come I see it absolutely everywhere? I mean not only can I buy and even rent a kilt in it, I can get ties, scarves, hats, pajamas, bathrobes, underwear, wrapping paper, ribbon, and cookie tins in it! In what way can this be seen as a "restricted" tartan?

I have also heard about personal cheif's tartans. All I would say about this is to check with the cheif, to see if they agree. In a few cases I can think of (MacNab for one) there is a tartan commonly called "the chief's tartan" only because it came from an old portrait of the cheif wearing it. But there, in fact, has never been any restriction upon it and anyone who wants to can wear it. But again, check with your cheif. If you are a member of the clan, and he says only he can wear that tartan, then it would be a good idea to respect his opinion.

But then again, if the tartan is really restricted for use by that one individual, it is not going to be in general production, so you really don't need to worry about accadentally wearing the wrong tartan and offending anyone.

Too my mention of 'dress' appears to have caused some slight confusion: many clans have a 'dress tartan' which might be considered too colourful for day to day wear though fine for formal/evening wear: thus for day to day use they will have a less colourful tartan - oft called hunting. So when writing/speaking about a dress tartan, one is making reference to a tartan worn by men.

Although there are a few cases of a "dress" tartan being a predominantly red tartan, these are usually newer tartans, designed by people not familiar with tartan terminology. In most all cases, a "dress" tartan referrs to a variation of the standard clan sett with more white added in. This is in the style of the seventeenth and eighteenth century arisaides worn by the women, which were usually woven with a white base. So, in that sense, it was originally a woman's style. Today the dress tartans are more commonly worn by Highland dancers. So that is probably where people got confused. (Though I will note that there is nothing that says a man can't wear a dress tartan if he wants to).

No one says you cannot wear a bright tartan in the day (most tartans are rather bright), nor that you cannot wear a "hunting tartan" for formal wear. As I siad in a previous post, all a hunting tartan is is an alternate tartan, in greens and blues, where a clan's tartan is normally bright (such as red). But what happens in the case of a clan like Armstrong, or MacKenzie, where their standard tartan is already green/blue? Of course you'd wear that tartan to a formal occasion, because that is the only clan tartan availalbe.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. What makes a kilt outfit formal or casual is what you wear with the kilt, not the kilt itself.

(BTW, regarding the white hose and laced-up ghillies -- they may have as well told him to go join the pipe bands, because most all the men I see wearing these at the games during the day are pipers in uniform).

Too whilst it is true that many clan tartans were created/re-invented during the early years of the 19th century, there is evidence that some clans were wearing a common tartan earlier than that.

Rather scant evidence, though. I'd be glad to talk about specifics. What evidence were you thinking of?

I will close by making mention of an event from some years ago when we were organising a party: and someone suggested a recitation from Burns. Most would think: Scotland-Burns-ideal. No way, the response was 'we are a highland family and that lowlander is nothing to do with us': the outcome-no Burns.

I would only add that the industrialization of the tartan weaving industry, and thus the advent of standardized named tartans, occurred in Bannockburn, in the Lowlands. :-)

So if all at the party were to cling to only Highland traditions, that meant they all showed up in their hand woven generic tartan patterns, right? :-)
(just teasing).

Aye,
Matt

[David in Maryland]

I have been looking for the statement made by the Lord Lyon, the one who has the jurisdiction in this matter, stating that anyone can wear any tartan they so desire, with the exception of the restricted ones such as the Balmoral. I thought it would be on the Tartan Authority website but can not find it. That would put an end to the argument.

[macwilkin]

From the Lord Lyon's web site, www.lyon-court.com:

There are no strict rules on who has the right to wear a particular tartan. People normally wear only the tartan (if any) of their surname, or a "district tartan" connected with where they live or where their family come from.

Wearing a particular clan tartan indicates that the wearer bears an allegiance to the chief of that clan. A tartan which uses the name of a clan may only do so if the chief of that clan has given his approval to the particular design.

There is no official register of tartan. Records of designs are maintained by the Scottish Tartans Authority, Fraser House, 25 Commissioner Street, Crieff, Perthshire, PH7 3A Y.

The Lord Lyon has no jurisdiction over tartan but if a clan chief wishes, the Lord Lyon will record details of specific clan tartan in the Lyon Records.

Cheers,

Todd