Attitudes To The Kilt.

[Alan H]

Hmmm.

In about 1780 John McKnight married Kitty Piercy, somewhere around Alexandria, Virginia, in the colonies. That John McKnight was the son of William McKnight, who emigrated from Ulster in 1733. It's now 2005.

Now, McKnight is a sept of Clan Macnaughton, which is one o' them good old Highland Clans. However, they lived at Dunderave , just across the Loch from the Campbells and between this and that and a truly spectacular event around 1740 where the Laird of the Campbells got John MacNaughton so drunk that he married and impregnated the campbells eldest daughter, Jane, rather than the younger daughter, Margaret...the one he wanted....well, things have gotten muddied up a bit. When John woke up in the morning after his wedding night with a hangover of spectacular proportions, he discovered the wrong face looking at him from the pillow.

He got up, said goodbye, got on his horse and somehow...God knows how, stole Margaret out of the Campbell castle. He then took off for County Antrim in Ireland, where the McKnights and MacNaughtans have been a well-established family since the mid-1700's with a dandy clan chieftan (not a descendent of John, but rather of an earlier, younger son) and a grand mansion that dates from the late 1700's.

The legend has it that nine months later Jane gave birth and shortly thereafter threw herself out of one of the upper windows of Dunderave. The lengend also has it that Lord Ardinklas, the Laird of the Campbells, threw the bairn himself into the Loch to drown. Aye, a good, lurid, wretched tale, fit for drafty manor houses and foggy evenings on the shore of the Loch, for sure.

So.

MacNaughton is supposedly a Highland Clan, but there hasn't been a Highland Clan Chief in residence in Scotland since around 1740. That tartan though...yessirree, that's a Highland Clan all right. Why, some histories have the MacNaughtons descended from the Pictish Chiefs of Moray. Now, THAT goes back a ways, eh? The current chief, Peter MacNaughton is apprently a fine gentleman that makes his living by farming Pheasant for hunting clubs. Aaaahhhh....In Ireland, not Scotland. He's never been outside the UK. The Clan....NOT the clan society, but the clan itself, wound up its operations several years ago because it had dwindled down to less than forty members. There IS no more Clan MacNaughton. It's gone....dead. Recit in Pace, Clan MacNaughton, though you still have a chief.

So. Clan MacNaughton... loaded with nearly a thousand years of history, a clan seat on a Loch that dates to before 1500, an even earlier clan seat on the same Loch that dates to before 1300, a manor house in Ireland, a whacking great ghost and love story and a really nice couple of tartans... Aye, just loaded with tradition....make sure you catch that word...TRADITION.... the Clan practically OOZES tradition...

1. doesn't even exist any more
2. hasn't had a clan chief actually in Scotland since before 1740
3. Now exists as a clan SOCIETY, which has several thousand members, the newst of which is......... yours truly. An American. Yes, an American, like the overwhelming majority of the REST of the society.

Now, why would I join a dead clan and wear a red-hued tartan when I don't even like red clothes....I like blues and grays? I will look bloody awful in that flippin' tartan, and of course as one of those soiled upstart buckos from the USA, I'm much more concerned with how good I look than what anything actually MEANS, don't you know? Why would I do that?

Because about eight generations ago one of my mothers ancestors named William McKnight left Northern Ireland and came to the USA and lived here.

The thing is, when I explained that to the organizers of the Clan Society, the overwhelming majority of which live in the USA, they were delighted that I was interested. I joined up officially just two weeks ago and had a wonderful chat with the other American couple that help run the society out here. We had some single malt. We looked at photos from their trip to visit Dunderave, the ancestral seat of the MacNaughtons. They stood on the steps of the house that John MacNaughton fled, aghast at what had happened, in 1740. I heard the story about John MacNaughton and Jane and Margaret. We shared a not-very-serious glower over at those horrible people, the Campbells, across the walkway and then we had a bit of single malt with them and the Munros.

As far as I'm concerned, I'm a MacNaughton. If you have to live in Scotland to be a MacNaughton, and have the direct male-line only ancestral birthright, well...the realities of time, place, genetics and human behavior will mean that the clans will all fade away into nothing but memories. Clan MacNaughton is GONE, though the name lives everywhere, all over the place in Scotland I understand. But it is gone. Dead. Disbanded. They gave up. The heritage of the clan in it's formal arrangement is up to the Clan Society, now, and that Society is primarily made up of Americans.

I am proud of and very interested in my pretty darned thin genetic connection to Scotland. Like most Americans, I'm a mutt....French Canadian on my fathers side, English and Scottish and Border Clan...and Swedish on my mothers side. The thing is, most Americans are like this. Yet, I've learned a tremendous amount about the history of Scotland since I've been participating in X Marks. I love the traditional music of the country and I perform it a lot. I might even cultivate a bit of a taste for single malt, in time.

And I wear the kilt. I quite look forward to wearing the kilt of a clan that is dead, now....that has been thrown out of it's own country for 250-plus years...the MacNaughtons. I can't wait for my Bear Kilt to arrive, and when it does I will wear it with pride, not just for my ancestry that it represents, but for the learning, knowledge and understanding I have gained while finding out where that "McKnight" that showed up on Great Great Uncle Reynolds family tree really came from. When I put it on, I think it'll be entirely appropriate that I hoist a dram for John MacNaughton, who downed his own share of malt, and chose the woman he loved over the House at Dunderave.

*****************

Now, on a totally different note, I also want a kilt made out of the California Tartan. I also want a kilt made out of the X Marks tartan!!!

That's right, the CALIFORNIA tartan. It's based on, but is different from the tartan of the Muir family....which is a Lowland Scots family. EEeeewwww, a LOWLAND family. But it's a wonderful tartan. **cough** Well, *I* think it's a nice tartan. Other people might think it ugly as sin, since it has essentially no TRADITION, and what little it does have has essentially nothing at all to do the with Highlands of Scotland.

The X Marks tartan!!! It's not based on a single damned thing but what M.A.C. Newsome dreamed up and put together based on the colors that existed on this web site before Hank made the new color scheme and layout. Tradition? WHAT tradition? X Marks has existed for what....eighteen months?

I will assume that Mac won't object to my wearing the California Tartan in a kilt, or the X Marks tartan in a kilt seeing as neither of them have anything whatsoever to do with any Highland Clan. They're just another couple of nice arrangements of colored stripes on woven cloth, eh? So if I get a kilt made out of either of them, who's to care?

I care. I will wear both of those kilts with pride and understanding.

[James]

Oh dear-I do seem to created a furore, and stood on a few toes-well the furore is one thing, but I did not intend to tread on toes. So I suppose it is now incumbent upon me to tie up as few loose ends.

First I never meant to suggest that I denied the dynamic evolution of the kilt, or it being worn from Ulan Bator to Pago Pago.

Second being a member of a clan is about that clan-not of necessity where one lives: my own is proud to welcome our own folk living in America - Australia and many other countries.

Thirdly, whilst at one level I might disagree with the views and ways of others on occasion: it never was or will be my intention to inhibit their views and ways.

However there is another side, in that many do take 'their own' tartan very seriously: and though this might differ from the books, many so called pundits and of course the makers: look askance at those who they consider to be wearing a tartan without entitlement. Probably nothing will be said, but the feeling will be there. Here one is talking about a deep emotional level, linked to an individuals sense of identity, and the preservation of that indentity, which links again to their membership of an unique group.

Then how the kilt is worn and what with-again the books do not cover the unwritten nuances of occasion, and custom, be that of clan or event. Akin I think to the military where units contrary to all dress regulations would take a great pride in the little things that distanced them from the mass of the army: such as how the beret was cocked-or other units can wear weights/bands to blouse their trousers-WE DO NOT!

Here on a lighter note, I could better have gone without my nether garments, than appear in uniform without either-swagger stick, walking stick, sword or personal arm: depending upon the order of dress.

I suppose it is like as with so many things in life-akin to an onion with layer after layer of aspects and views, some of which will accord to the theory and others which shock horror do not accord with it. In this case one of the layers is that of how some view the tartan.

James

[herminator]

Whew, am I glad I wear only solids!!! I have no connections to scotland at all so I have no "right" to any tartan. Perhaps the "german national" that Matthew has, but then how much tradition does a tartan or the kilt have in Germany? None, so it is no wonder the tartan was created in America!

As to traditions: as a member of a student corporation founded in 1852 we have a lot of traditions, some good: those we keep and fill with life, some not so good: those we have discarded, some are kept because they are fun and some are quite new, we´ll see if they survive. What is important is that traditions change!
Rules are there so you think before you break them!
As I sit here I wear a black cotton twill kilt with a green strip on the right edge of the apron instead of a fringe. I wear a sporran from Norway and a replic of a norse clothes pin as a kilt pin.Everybody recognises it as a kilt, it looks good to me and many others, I can wear it daily. Even without a tartan I usually am not asked about whats underneath but if I am scottish!

Cool down, we will never get a opinion all will accept, so live and let live, please!

[Scotus]

I'm still interested in an answer to Hank's question, which he has asked at least twice. For all the wind, like a mighty jove, coming from Mac, you'd think he could answer a very simply question. Mac has certainly given the impression that he lives somewhere in the Highlands of Scotland... eating his Haggis and talking over ancient Scottish traditions with several clan chiefs.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Personally, it doesn't matter to me where anyone happens to live, or whether they behaved churlishly or arrogantly. All that matters are the facts.

Verlyn writes:

While I don't necessarily agree with Mac's OPINIONS and presentation, I think he has made it clear that they are his opinions.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Sometimes I get people coming into the Scottish Tartans Museum who love to hang on to their opinions. No matter how much I try to explain to them, they won't beleive that the tartan I am showing them is correct, because the label on the tartan reads "Johnstone" and they spell their name "Johnston." Or that the tartan I have in stock is "wrong" because the one their grandma showed them when they were seven years old had a "darker color red." Or that they are a member of the MacDonald clan, despite the fact that every book I have on hand lists their name in the MacKinnon clan, because some tartan merchant on Princes St in Edinburgh told them they were MacDonalds and sold them $600 worth of MacDonald merchandise.

Sometimes I have to just shrug and let people beleive what they want to believe. But I try to make sure they have the facts first.

So, if anyone wants to beleive that only certain people are entitled to certain tartans, that's fine. But know the history.

What I was objecting to was not so much Mac's opinions but that he was attempting to put those opinions forth as established facts.

The article he quoted from the MacKenzie clan site claimed to be directly quoting from the "rules of the Scottish Clan System" and was extremely restrictive about who had the "right" to wear a tartan, as well as containing errors about the tartans themselves. Putting it that way makes it all sound extremely official, and someone just getting interested in their heritage, or in kilt wearing, could very easily get the wrong idea.

Aside from that, I'm not going to disparage anyone's family traditions. I've had Stewarts insist that the Hunting Stewart tartan is their family tartan. When I explain to them that the Hunting Stewart tartan has always, since the early nineteenth century when it was first woven, considered a universal tartan, not a clan tartan, and show them all the other Stewart tartans to choose from, they insist that their great-grandad wore the Hunting Stewart, that their family has always used the Hunting Stewart as their family tartan, and that's the way it is going to be. Fine. Then that is "your" family tartan, and I'm not going to tell you to wear anything else.

So I would never put down someone's family traditions. I just want to make sure they have the facts.

Arrogcow wrote:

You're own tradition of who can wear a particular tartan seems to be only about 100-150 years old based on Matt's research.

More like 150-200 years old, but the point remains the same.

Ambrose wrote:

As the kilt came back into vogue, following the Great Kilt Outage (my injected humor) purchasers contracted with weavers to create their kilts to which the weavers would design a tartan to the pleasure of the customer, a Campbell in this example. The originally designed tartan was sold to Mr. Campbell. Subsequent customers would visit the weaver and happen to see the tartan fabric used for Mr. Campbell. As the weavers were quite busy designing the patterns, they soon had so many and it was difficult to describe them so the weavers themselves named tartans by the name of the person who placed the original order. So with enquiry on a certain tartan, in this case the tartan Mr. Campbell ordered, the weaver would politely say, oh. that's the Campbell tartan. Just how true would this be?

I don't know if this is true specifically regarding the Campbell tartan, but in general, yes, this is how a lot of it happened.

I love to tell the story of tartan No. 43. Wilsons of Bannockburn originally identifies all their stock tartans by numbers. When they started to assign them names in the late eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries, No. 43 was called Caledonia. Later, a name named Kidd on the east coast of Scotland bought the cloth, and the pattern was renamed No. 43 or Kidd. Later still, a man named MacPherson in the West Indies ordered the same tartan, and his name was also added to the records.

When the Highland Society of London began asking all the clan cheifs to submit samples of their tartan for collection in 1815, many chiefs had no idea what their "clan tartan" was supposed to be. The cheif of the MacPhersons wrote to Wilsons asking for a sample of "the MacPherson tartan." So they sent him No. 43, and this is the tartan the clan still uses today.

Regarding the Campbell tartan, in particular, if anyone has the May issue of the Scottish Banner, read my article dealing with the 1901 book, The Kilt and How to Wear It , where it quotes correspondance (I can't remember the year, but it was in the mid-to-late 1800s) from a Campbell who claimed that he know nothing whatsoever about clan tartans, and neither did his kilt maker.

Lastly, Arrogcow also wrote:

I do have Wilsons and Thompsons in my family tree, but they are all from Wales and England (and a matrilinial descent) so I can't wear those tartans aparently (which sucks 'cause there are about 4000 different Wilson tartans, I'd always be able to find one I liked).

When you are in the ITI, or any other similar database, and type in "Wilson," you will get an extremely long list of tartans. The reason for this is that the first large-scale producer of tartan cloth was William Wilsons & Sons of Bannockburn, est. around 1765. They were using standardized patterns as early as the 1780s. At first all thier patterns were assigned numbers. When you get to the nineteenth century, they also gave many of their patterns names. Their 1819 pattern book contains about 250 tartans, only about one hundred of which are named. So many of their tartans were never called anything but a number.

So when you are looking in these tartan databases, and see several dozen tartans called "Wilsons No. 12" or "Wilsons No. 142," these are tartan patterns that were produced by Wilsons that were never given names. That means that if anyone wanted to wear those tartans today, go for it. They are unnamed, general use tartans.

The one used as the Wilson family tartan was one originally designed for the wedding of Janet Wilson (William Wilson's daughter), and is ITI #625

[KMacT]

...I have many times been asked while on my bicycle or on inline skates "are you Canadian." To which I respectfully reply, "no, but I respect Canada." The flag and what one does with it can be a vary contentious issue, to which those of us in the USA can attest. Yet, no Canadian has ever challenged me as a US citizen for wearing a garment based on their flag. The key here is respect and understanding for what the symbol means.

And as a Canadian, for what that is worth, I encourage you to wear our flags with pride. You'll not get any grief from me. One comment, though. There is a remarkable difference between the Canadian idea of the flag as a symbol and the American idea of the same. A pledge of alliegance to the Canadian flag would be, to most Canadians, an odd idea (in my humble opinion). You may very well have more respect for our flag than a typical Canadian does! Please wear our flag as you have, but the reaction you get from Canadians is a reaction from a flag culture much different than that in the United States.

Kevin

[beerbecue]

As far as I'm concerned, I'm a MacNaughton.

Hey Alan H,

Not to thread-jack here, but I wanted to tell you... One of my best friends back when I was earning my Master's degree, a Brian McKnight, was a proud MacNaughton.... His father was deeply involved with things MacNaughton.... And I have to tell you, I don't think the tartan looks bad at all.... McKnight Senior wore his kilt to Brian's Ph.D. graduation ceremony (and other festivities that weekend), and I thought it was resplendent!! BTW, that is the man responsible for my diving into my past, and part of my feelings for all things Gordon (he certainly set me down a path, indeed!).......

[beerbecue]

However there is another side, in that many do take 'their own' tartan very seriously: ..... look askance at those who they consider to be wearing a tartan without entitlement. Probably nothing will be said, but the feeling will be there. Here one is talking about a deep emotional level, linked to an individuals sense of identity, and the preservation of that indentity, which links again to their membership of an unique group.

What I had tried to say, albeit not very well, is that for many of us Americans who identify with our ancestry (as mixed as it is)... There is no dilution of that emotion on our side of the pond, either.... Personally, when I see a tartan that I recognize, as one I identify with or not, I feel a sense of my history - whether real or perceived, it doesn't really matter, because the perception is there.

I suppose that is wherein the problem lies. Just because my family left Ulster over 300 years ago, that doesn't dilute my heritage or my passion for the kilt one bit.

On that related note by Rick concerning cycling jerseys.... I see that all the time - I had a USPS jersey that I loved to wear to support the team through the last three Tours de France... One day, some poseur jumped my case because I wasn't a member of the Postal Team. Well, after talking to several professionals, I found out that they love it when fans wear their kit - it not only increases exposure for the team, it shows that they have supporters as well... I think this was a great analogy for kilts, tartans, etc.

Wear what you like, respect what you wear......

Isn't life wonderful!?

[macwilkin]

When the Highland Society of London began asking all the clan cheifs to submit samples of their tartan for collection in 1815, many chiefs had no idea what their "clan tartan" was supposed to be.

Oddly enough, I was looking at the letter from the MacDonald Chief last night to the Highland Society in 1815. He admitted:

Being really ignorant of what is exactly The Macdonald Tartan, I request you will have the goodness to exert every Means in your power to Obtain a perfectly genuine Pattern, Such as Will Warrant me in Authenticating it with my Arms.

Matt, your last post proved that you are the epitome of a "Highland gentleman".

Cheers,

Todd

[Scotus]

Matt, I loved your last post. This reminds me of how the Drummonds got their tartan. In 1822, King George IV was showing up to a big party in Edinburgh, planned by Sir Walter Scott himself, and all the Highland clans were to show up in their "clan tartans." The Drummonds, picking out a tartan they liked, showed up in one of the many tartans being used by the Grants. It has been the tartan worn by most Drummonds for about 175 years now.

I just thought the story of the tartan I wear is an excellent example of "wear what you like," and the same becoming an official tartan.