X Marks Tartan Material: getting down to brass tacks

[Alan H]

OK, as you all know, I've dropped any attempt at getting poly-viscose or other synthetic material. We're now focusing on wool, either a medium-weight or heavyweight weave. There may be more options out there, but for now I've narrowed it down to three possibilities.

1. A custom weave. M.A.C. Newsome and Cydni from Thistle Stop both use the same custom weaver, who by all reports turns out marvelous kilting tartan. If you get this stuff is certainly sounds like you'll get the cream of the crop....superior quality material. However, it comes at an appropriate price as well, meaning about $65 a yard. Naturally, if you happen to know a custom weaver yourself, there's nothing stopping you from asking your preferred weaver to make you a few yards of the X Marks tartan.

2. N. Bately, Ltd. from England. They make what they call "16 ounce" cloth which apparently is not really 16 ounces. This raises questions about them, as in, if they can't even weigh their own cloth????

OK, I ordered some swatches from N. Bately some time ago and I started a cycle of sending them around to some of our regular kilt makers. People who have seen the N. Bately swatches (or will, very shortly): Steve at Freedom Kilts, some traditional kiltmakers that Steve knows in Victoria, Bear at Bear kilts, M.A.C. Newsome, and Cyndi at Thistle Stop. Rocky as USA kilts ordered swatches from N. Bately on his own, and has also seen samples of the material.

There are some issues with this material for traditional kilts having to do with the selvedge, primarily, but also with some specifics about the cloth structure. I'll let the above-mentioned folks discuss the stuff. Understand that there will be a variance of opinion about the material. It will be up to you to think it over, think about what kind of kilt you want and what you'll pay for it, and then chime in with your own thoughts.

The quoted price to me for this material was 12.95 pounds per meter, which is very roughly $25 (USA) a meter. Even if there was a 20 percent import tariff for this material into Canada, and it cost $200 to ship it from England to Canada, that means it would sell back to you at something like $45 (USA dollars) a meter plus shipping from British Columbia to wherever. Don't forget the shipping.

3. Material from Fraser and Kirkbright in British Columbia. This material is structurally somewhat different from the usual kilting wool, but according to everyone that's seen it, it's very nice stuff. Nonetheless, it's not the "usual thing". Some folks might have an issue with that. Bear makes kilts out of it and Colin has a fair bit in-hand for a kilt he's making. They're weighed in with their opinions on the cloth before, I hope they'll do it again. The report from several X Markers is that the people from F&K are great. Their heavyweight tartan would retail to our distributor for about $43 a meter, so figure that he'd sell it out to you and me for a few bucks more than that to pay for his time....call it about (and this is an ESTIMATE) $48 a meter. Then there'd be shipping to wherever you wanted it sent.

OK, those are our options. If you choose #1, then you're on your own. I'm not going to try to cobble together an order for tartan which while it's no doubt RERALLY nice, is beyond too many people's means to pay for it. Nonetheless, if you choose this option I have no doubt that you're going to receive some really beautiful material from the weaver and that it will make a stunning kilt.

That leaves, for the rest of us, to choose between #2 and #3. Would the kiltmakers and other X Markers who've seen material from N. Bately and Fraser and Kirkbright chime in with their comments? I know what they are, but let's let folks hash it out a bit and see the pluses and minuses. I'll wait a week so that everyone gets a chance to see where it's going and then we'll make a decision.

And then, we'll see who plunks down the moolah, and who doesn't!

Might there be other weavers out there who make cloth as well, that might weave us 20 yards of material for a resonable cost? Yes, there might be. But I did a mess of searching on the 'net before I started this, and this is what I came up with. So X Markers.....this's what you're STUCK with! I'm not going back to the beginning and starting all over again.

One last thing. Why am I taking so long about this? Well, imagine that I decided that N. Bately was the way to go. I just DECIDED that, knowing full well that I am no tartan expert, nor kiltmaker. So then I put up a blurb here at X Marks and started taking peoples money. Then the stuff starts arriving.. But wait, the selvedge isn't right! Hold on, the stuff is lighter wieght than it's supposed to be!! Can you hear the chorus of unhappiness? I can.

So to save my extremely tender hiney, I want EVERYONE to have as much information as possible, UP FRONT so that we all can make the most informed decision possible. And that is why this is taking so long.

Alan

[Alan H]

I did some calculations the other night about these. Here they are:

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the X Marks tartan has a 9-inch sett. I double-checked with Matt, and that's close enough as make no difference.

OK, a standard kife pleat kilt has somehwere between 18-36 pleats 'round your bum. I'm going to call it twenty for reasons you'll see, shortly.

I have a 40 inch waist. OK, how much material do I need?

>>>about 26 inches for the front apron...the extra 6 is to allow for fringe and the A-shaping of the apron.
>>>about 20 inches for the inner apron.
>>>about 6 inches for the reverse pleat
>>>about 6 inches for the kick pleat

OK how about all those pleats 'round the back?

If my waist is 40 inches, then the aprons will cover 20 inches of that and the pleats will cover 20 inches. If I pleat to the sett and have 1 inch of each pleat "show" then each pleat, total will take 10 inches..... 9 inches for the sett and one more that "shows.

OK, if 1 inch "shows" then that means I'm talking about 20 pleats 'round me bum.

20 pleats x 10 inches per pleat = 200 inches.

26 + 20 + 6 + 6 + 200 = 258

So I need a bare minmum of 258 inches of tartan to make my kilt. 258 / 36 = 7.166 yards or about 7 and a sixth yard. Call it seven and a third to round it off. 7.33 yards. That's seven yards and one foot of cloth to make my neato X Marks kilt.

OK, the fabric is double width so in fact I need half of that, meaning about 3.66 yards. That's three yards and two feet. Oh, heck, just buy four yards of the stuff and have some left over for some belt loops and maybe a tie.

So for me to buy enought custom weave tartan for a knife-pleated kilt, that will be around $270 for the cloth. If I buy it from the X Marks representative who is hopefully handling the N. Bately stuff for $45 a meter (close enough to a yard) the material will cost me **about** $180 for my knife-pleated kilt. If X Marks goes with the Fraser and Kirkbright material, it will cost me something on the order of $192.

NOTE: none of these include shipping from either the custom weaver or the X Marks saint in Canada who's volunteered to help us out, here. NOTE no. 2. If your waist is bigger than mine, it will cost more. If your waist is smaller than mine, it will cost less. NOTE no. 3 I can't make a "four-yard kilt" out of this stuff unless I pleat it to "nothing" (as M.A.C. Newsome has explained early civilian kilts were often pleated) or get it made into a box-pleated kilt. Well, OK, you could knife-pleat it and only have 6-7 pleats that showed three inches of material, but that's not much like any sort of traditional kilt. OK...that depends on what you want to call "tradition". Anyway, the 9-inch sett requires that the pleats be very deep. The 9-inch sett divides handily into thirds, which is three inches, each.

I'm open to having any of my errors pointed out to me in this scenario, believe me!!! If I goofed, let me know. Incidentally, the "pleat to stripe" pics that I posted the other day aren't very accurate, I'm afraid.

[Alan H]

Hm. No comments after five days.

OK, so I'm going to take this to mean that the decision is in my hands, and that whatever I choose, people will be OK with. You had your chance to comment and ask specific questions of kiltmakers who've seen the material. If you order and then the stuff comes and you don't like the selvedge or something, it's on your head.

I'll let you know what I decide and will pass it by Highlandtide for the OK before proceding.

Alan

[KMacT]

Alan,

Thanks for all your work on this. I'll just pipe in and say that I would go for the Fraser and Kirkbright cloth from British Columbia. The impression I get is that it's the better source with better customer service and better material (albeit a little different than the norm). The other has too many unknowns for me.

Kevin

P.S. I might not actually be purchasing some of this tartan, but I am seriously considering it.

[beerbecue]

Hi Alan,

I will be receiving some 16 oz. 100% wool yardage from Fraser and Kirkbright this week. I noticed you made a comment about selvedge quality....

I would be glad to comment on this material, when it arrives, to give you my impressions, if you would like....

[Doc Hudson]

I've kept quiet because I'm not buying enough to make a kilt. For one meter, I could bite my lip and pay any reasonable price. But I'd just as soon pay less than more.

Either will be fine with me and I don't care about the selvege. In making a vest, it makes no difference.

[Alan H]

Hi Alan,

I will be receiving some 16 oz. 100% wool yardage from Fraser and Kirkbright this week. I noticed you made a comment about selvedge quality....

I would be glad to comment on this material, when it arrives, to give you my impressions, if you would like....

I would VERY MUCH like to hear that. We'd be buying a custom weave of their 16 ounce.

Colin, are you listening? Comments specifically about the Frasker and Kirkbright fabrics selvedge would be extremely helpful.

[Alan H]

I've kept quiet because I'm not buying enough to make a kilt. For one meter, I could bite my lip and pay any reasonable price. But I'd just as soon pay less than more.

Either will be fine with me and I don't care about the selvege. In making a vest, it makes no difference.

I hear ya, Doc. I know this. The end price has to be significantly less than the cost of a custom weave or I won't bother. "Significant" means at least $15 a yard less, hopefully more like $20+ a yard less. That will save folks $60 to $70 or even a bit more in the cost of a kilt, which is worth it. If the price of the cloth that is workable for kilts climbs to over $50 a meter, when you can get gorgeous custom stuff for $65, it's not worth anybody's time.

I'm ninety-five percent sure we can pull this off, and we're getting closer.

If it flops then I'll be annoyed since I spent so much of my time, but then I've learned a lot by doing this, which is worth something in and of itself.

[Colin]

I would VERY MUCH like to hear that. We'd be buying a custom weave of their 16 ounce.

Colin, are you listening? Comments specifically about the Frasker and Kirkbright fabrics selvedge would be extremely helpful.

Sorry guys, I have been so bogged down with big projects at work and at home that I have not even started my kilt yet. I know which fabric beerbecue is talking about, and given his experience with making his own kilts, you guys would be better to listen to his opinion on the material. I have posted my opinion on the stuff that I have several times in the past in regards to this material.

[Alan H]

Sorry guys, I have been so bogged down with big projects at work and at home that I have not even started my kilt yet. I know which fabric beerbecue is talking about, and given his experience with making his own kilts, you guys would be better to listen to his opinion on the material. I have posted my opinion on the stuff that I have several times in the past in regards to this material.

LOLOL, I *just* messaged you! Then I come back and you're on it, already.

Pretty funny.

I know you like the cloth itself. One of the issues that some folks have raised is about the selvedge. Any comments about the selvedge, specifically? You've been clear that you like the cloth itself, very much.