At what point doe's a Kilt ....

[James]

It might be well not to be too adventurous, and look to a traditional kilt, rather than some of the variants.

For it is a garment that can be justified, and accepted.

Here there is a very delicate point, manners. For it is a sad fact that individuals wearing some of the variants, will be treated with good manners, and so be certain that their 'kilt' is accepted. However what is actually being said about them and their choice of attire can be very different: and without doubt their nether wear is not being seen as a kilt.

Probably things are very different in America, with it's tradition of fairs and the like where variant costumes are accepted: or amongst populations who not being used to seeing the kilt-will more readily accept the variants.

However here in the UK both above and below the highland line, there are many who take the kilt-it's making and wearing very seriously indeed.

Therefore it will probably be easiest to follow present conventions when first venturing into the kilted world. Having said that, there is a dynamic at work, so such things as ties can be discarded for day to day wear, and the tweed jacket replaced by a leather jerkin and so on.

Too the durability and comfort of a traditional kilt is without doubt: too it will stand up to the British weather and rough wear in a way that many of the variants could not match. So though expensive, a good kilt is a good investment.

The root of the entire problem lies in he fact that for natural reasons, garments that are not seen by many as being a kilt, are being sold and worn as a kilt. Here I can well appreciate that those breaching convention are seeking to justify their entirely laudable choice of attire. However there is no point in avoiding the fact that to many such garments are not a kilt, and certainly are not indicative of a highland connection.

Again I regret being contentious, but there is little point in avoiding a problem: which unless addressed will without doubt one day cause some innocent soul great embarrassement.

James

[bear]

I can't say it any better than Matt, either.

As to finding a kilt in his tartan, find a kiltmaker he likes, (style/price/yardage), and see if that kiltmaker can get the right tartan.

Now, someone mentioned a cold beer?

[Derek]

Thanks for your comments so far guys. I did ask my wife yesterday this question and she said ... ' when it starts looking like a girly thing'. I will get her to explain further later today .. she was watching Big Brother at the time ... sad I know.
While I'm here .. Derek hands Bear a pint of cold welsh beer.
Come to that I'll hand everyone on this thread a cold welsh beer.
Thanks again guys
Derek

[KMacT]

While I'm here .. Derek hands Bear a pint of cold welsh beer.
Come to that I'll hand everyone on this thread a cold welsh beer.

I hope I'm not too late to get in on that beer?

Kevin

[Derek]

Your certainly not Kevin.
Derek now hands Kevin a cold welsh beer .... I think I will just leave a stack of em on the bar so anyone can now simply help themselves. Its Brains SA Bitter by the way.
Derek

[herminator]

Kilt and Beer ... two things that make life great!!

Cheers!

[Blu (Ontario)]

It might be well not to be too adventurous, and look to a traditional kilt, rather than some of the variants.
For it is a garment that can be justified, and accepted.
Here there is a very delicate point, manners. For it is a sad fact that individuals wearing some of the variants, will be treated with good manners, and so be certain that their 'kilt' is accepted. However what is actually being said about them and their choice of attire can be very different: and without doubt their nether wear is not being seen as a kilt.

A very valid point, James. The wearing of the traditional kilt is obviously less "risky" than the modern variants. I should add, however, that the rules of justification and acceptance change over time. Women today wear trousers because they took the bull by the nads and decided collectively to do it. For men, why should the modern variant be any different. Only by wearing it often and with abandon and confidence, will it be accepted without some pretext or justification for doing so. Nothing ventured... Nothing gained.

...there are many who take the kilt-it's making and wearing very seriously indeed.

Very important indeed, for the health and survival of the tradition and all it represents.

...Therefore it will probably be easiest to follow present conventions when first venturing into the kilted world....

I followed this route as did many on this board. I must admit though, I have to give much credit for blatant cheek and audacity to those who venture directly into wearing a modern variant that has no tradition for a buffer.

... Again I regret being contentious, but there is little point in avoiding a problem: which unless addressed will without doubt one day cause some innocent soul great embarrassement. James

The degree of embarrassment felt will be proportional to the degree of importance we place on tradition, personal connection, and justification. It would seem that some people are incapable of knowing when to feel embarrassement. (Look at Sportkilts "Wall of Fame" for example.)

I think J. Carbombs basic rules pretty much nails it home. Until the wearing of kilts becomes much more common place, there will be a degree of blurring to the definition and hence a reason for discussions such as this.

[Blu (Ontario)]

... Frilly shirt, pleated garment and a pair of Mary-Janes make it a skirt...

Ooooh, do you think some green tights would go OK with that?? :razz:

[motorman4life]

I am in total agreement with Matt and Ham.

I certainly do not speak with the authority that either of them can, but in an effort to answer the question, as Matt stated, the definition of a kilt would probably be too broad to be of any real use. And, as Ham stated, the kilt is evolving, as it has done for centuries.

I think you could pretty easily classify different types of kilt styles; military, traditional, ancient, modern/casual, modern/dress, high fashion, sport and utility. Each could be pretty clearly defined and of course, as with most things in life, there may be the occasional exception to the rule.

Over all the various and specific definitions you may derive for each type of kilt, you will probably find many commonalities among a majority of the styles.

I think a broad definition would be something along these lines:
“A pleated skirt of masculine appearance designed and intended to be worn by men at or above their hips, that fastens or closes at or near the right hip.”

Of course, as I stated, there may be the occasional exception to the rule, but this very broad definition would probably fit about 99% of what we accept as kilts today.

Any takers?

[bikercelt1]

While I appreciate everthing that has been said in an effort to define "kilt", it seems fairly straight foreward to me. If it looks masculine it's a kilt, if it looks feminine it's a skirt. Frills and lace? Look at some of the jabots, they don't look feminine. Vin Diesel didn't look like he was in drag wearing one of Howie's solid kilts. Madonna didn't look masculine even though she was wearing the same skirted USA Kilts garment that the piper was wearing on her recent tour.

I appreciate the opinions of traditionalists as well as the avant-garde. There's room for all of us. In the final analysis though a kilt is a skirted garment for men and if it's obviously a man wearing the garment in a manly way it's a kilt.

Jamie