The Tartan Police!

[Scotus]

I agree about the evolution part. The great kilt evolved into what we have today and call a "traditional kilt." It may change slightly in the future, but I'm just saying that some people don't believe the Utilikilt is a kilt at all; therefore, not a true evolution of the same garment. The dog analogy doesn't necessarily hold; for example, you can say that a Utilikilt is a garment without leggings, and a kilt is a garment without leggings. It doesn't follow that a Utilikilt is, therefore, a kilt.

[Dreadbelly]

Let's see what the dictionary has to say shall we?

[Archangel]

here is an example of the worst case "Tartan Police": http://www.durham.net/~neilmac/gallery.htm
This site has been up for a while and it's only recently that the individual covered the victims' faces. And added horrid synth midi music. I think maybe it's a joke but it's too cruel to be funny.

This is my culture, this is where I come from. Who is this pompous snot to make these statements about people? I hope it's nobody on this board. Anybody can take a picture of a crowd of people and play Blackwells (?) worst dressed. Why do that?

I have heard so much crap about the right way and the wrong way. Really, as somebody already said, the only wrong thing is wearing it backwards. After that, we're moralizing based on own personal taste. Some try and attach their statements to a bad sense of history. Scottish kilt tradition is mostly fraud generated from 18th Century English fashion fads. It mostly coincides with the romantic fantasy of my history so I buy into it.

After that, if you're traditional, good for you, pick a period and enjoy it. I like the 1780's to 1941 military style so that's my frame of reference.
If one chooses the period before 1750, most Scots are in dire poverty, barefoot, and ragged. Very few of the recent accessory discussion are valid in this context: clan tartan doesn't really exist; hose doesn't really exist; very few shoes; weapons are illegal.
If one chooses to be part of a contemporary tradition, well, despite the conflict, that has a sound tradition as well. "The parting on the left becomes the parting on the right." Today's eccentricities will become tomorrow's fashions. This is opening up kilts more, as my daughter's friends with their punk kilt styles and I hang out and enjoy each other. ...and walk past the patio of the Scottish pub where nobody is wearing a kilt and they just stare...pity.

If Axl Rose wants to wear a kilt, or a man wants to wear a mini-kilt and tights, I have my own opinion on that, but really it's none of my business until I'm asked about it by them or told to dress that way.

Sometimes we sound like my daughter and her friends, when they were younger, running down somebody because of some razor thin distinction between grunge and skater. The reality is that outside of that culture, there is no real difference. It is the same with us, all people see is the kilt.

It doesn't matter what I wear with the kilt, it gets compliments: I've never had total strangers give me a thumbs up for wearing trousers, never had young women, total strangers, tell me, in front of my wife, that I look good in shorts. It's the kilt, we're the accessory.

sorry for the rant.

[KMacT]

I agree about the evolution part. The great kilt evolved into what we have today and call a "traditional kilt." It may change slightly in the future, but I'm just saying that some people don't believe the Utilikilt is a kilt at all; therefore, not a true evolution of the same garment. The dog analogy doesn't necessarily hold.

A Utilikilt has a lot more in common with a "traditional" kilt than the "traditional" kilt has with the great kilt. But I agree that the dog analogy doesn't work.

Kevin

[LordDamax]

I've read this thread and am trying to figure out how anyone can say a Utilikilt isnt a kilt? The major differences are, as I see it, cotton twill as opposed to wool, no built in buckles and straps (I had read here elsewhere that to be a true kilt it should have 3 straps and buckles), it has pockets, and snaps that are more for show than anything else, so those I lump in with the 'accessory' category, although you cannot remove them.

It's a pleated skirt-like garmen designed to be worn by men.

It's not a kilt because it's not wool? Because it has pockets? I'm not trying to start an argument, I'm just trying to understand how people could say its not a kilt.

Remove the leather straps, add pockets and snaps, and my SWK wool black watch tartan looks like a plaid utilikilt.

I've never heard someone say "Hey those short two legged pant-like-things you are wearing with those cargo pockets arent pants!" because it's made from a different fabric and has cargo pockets. Why do the same for a kilt?

Is it a traditional kilt? No. Is it a kilt? Yes. Make a pair of jeans from a cotton/rayon blend and they arent really jeans anymore. Jeans are made from denim. Are they still pants? Of course.

[Dreadbelly]

People complain about the UKs because not all of the pleats go to the left or something like that. Half of the pleats from behind go to the right while the other half go to the left. I think. Or something like that. That, and the thin curly apron. People think it looks to much like a skirt.

I dunno.

[LordDamax]

Thin as in narrow width? I think it looks pretty good. My SWK I just got has an apron that personally, is entirely too wide. Personal preference doesnt dictate what is and isnt a kilt.

[macwilkin]

I think James has made some excellent points & did so in a very thoughtful and respectful manner. Thank you, James.

Respect is a two-way street. I know I'm sounding like a broken record here, but in order to get respect you must give it. I am a traditionalist when it comes to kilts, but I would never dream of saying that those who wear the "modern" variations such as Utilikilts, etc. are wrong and should immediately conform to my beliefs. On the same token, I would hope that the same respect would be returned and shown to me for my beliefs.

Some of the most intolerant people I have ever met in my 31 years on this piece of solar driftwood were those claiming to be "tolerant" -- they were "non-conformists" who believe everyone else should be "non-conforming" as well, which kinda defeats the whole purpose of non-conformity, as I see it.

Who cares, all that matters is that you stop wearing troosers. They are uncomfortable.

Some of us cannot wear the kilt everyday, for employment, financial, or personal reasons; my personal opinion is that since my kilt is such a special garment to me, in regards to my Scots heritage, that I do not want it to become just an "ordinary" garment, like a pair of trousers. But, that is just my personal opinion, not Gospel. I have a lot of respect for those who wear a kilt everyday, and I do not believe they are "wrong" because their kilt-wearing habits do not match mine. Are we no less a kilt-wearer because we choose not (or cannot) to wear one everyday?

Theodore Roosevelt once said that "courtsey is much a mark of a gentleman as courage". I think those are words to live by.

Cheers,

Todd

[Dreadbelly]

Todd, I meant no disrespect what so ever with that line. Just a sincere and heartfelt emotion for me.

For a so called enlightened society, there is an awful lot of restriction on what we can and can not wear. That irks me.

I wear the kilt every day to make a statement. Pretty soon, I wont be wearing a kilt every day. I will be wearing a kilt on some days, a sarong on others, and a kikoi or a Macabi on others.

I am feeling brave and cocky... It's time to terrorise the public with my anti conformist ways :razz:

[bubba]

Humans, as a group, are herd beasts. Anything that differs from the herd is suppressed as much as possible. It isn't laws or regulations that do it, it's the people themselves, the neighbors, those we work with, everyone around us. The pressure to conform can be pretty severe at times and those of us that can withstand that pressure and be different, be ourselves, frighten the rest.