The Tartan Police!

[gmcdavid]

People complain about the UKs because not all of the pleats go to the left or something like that. Half of the pleats from behind go to the right while the other half go to the left. I think. Or something like that. That, and the thin curly apron. People think it looks to much like a skirt.

I dunno.

Like the Kingussie kilt?
http://www.cuillinn.com/repro.html

The problem with saying "X is not a kilt because of feature Y" is that for many values of Y, an unquestionably traditional kilt exists that has Y.

Hence I am reluctant to draw a line in the sand. It is likely to be unjustified, and certain to be uncharitable. In any case, it is utterly pointless. The Utilikilt is not my choice, but nobody is forcing it on me. Live and let live.

Glenn

[Dreadbelly]

Like the Kingussie kilt?
http://www.cuillinn.com/repro.html

The problem with saying "X is not a kilt because of feature Y" is that for many values of Y, an unquestionably traditional kilt exists that has Y.

Hence I am reluctant to draw a line in the sand. It is likely to be unjustified, and certain to be uncharitable. In any case, it is utterly pointless. The Utilikilt is not my choice, but nobody is forcing it on me. Live and let live.

Glenn

Well said good sir. And I agree. I have a gross tartan fixation and addiction, but I am considering a solid coloured kilt.

Hah! I am a tartan traditionalist!

[Riverkilt]

I gotta tell you philosophers just how wonderful it felt to go to the Highland Games in Flagstaff Arizona yesterday (a small city of 50,000) and just soak in all the kilts.

There were expensive traditionals, inexpensive tartans - right down to SportKilts - contemporary kilts from many manufacturers in many styles.
It was just a joy to see so many men in kilts....and yes, a few ladies...including my lady. I made my first Utilikilt sale when Jeff and Jay were swamped at the UK booth, sold her a very nice UK olive original.

This will boggle some minds. I even saw a hand sewn traditional kilt made from camo pattern fabric. Wanted to ask the guy about it but he was quite busy with many other folks.

And, joy of joys, there was the guy in the traditional kilt who's lady kept running her hand over his butt and then slipping her hand between the pleats of his kilt.

There was a great turnout for a small town and kilts were the order of the day rather than a whole lot of bifurcated men peering at a few kilted folks.

Kilts are common sense. What's to police?

Ron

[macwilkin]

Will, why did you delete your last post? I thought it was well-reasoned and made some very good points.

Cheers,

Todd

[Will Macadam]

Todd,
Glad you liked it.
It was one of my opuses! I tend to get to 'invested' in these arguments, also i edit a zillion times, and in fairness, someone could well respond to a point that is no longer even expressed in the 'original'.
Which then looks unsporting on my part.
Also, well-reasoned though it appears, I'm someone who is very much a newbie, on reflection, I think I'll reserve my opinions for a few more months at least!
I'm sure the opportunity will come again!
Let me say this about the picture of the 'offenders' on the Tartan Police website.
As a Scot, those people offended my sensibilities, regardless of their OWN claims to the blood. In the embarrassment factor its up there with Oprah recently going on South African TV and claiming to have Zulu blood!
What made it (the Tartan Toga Team) more offensive was the fact that the whole picture just screams "We are gurgling ignoramuses, and we don't even know we are so off beam we are just embarrassing ourselves".
Why reason with that? Why defend oneself for ones right to demand a standard of excellence in the expression of ones heritage?
It's like feeding strawberries to billy goats.
See, the other post was kinder, cooler, more rational! I should have left well enough alone! ;) This time I will.... let them flame.

[Jerry]

While it is my personal preference to wear tartan kilts which are associated with either side of my family ( a non traditional idea in itself), I have seen a few solids whick looked so sharp, and I might even consider wearing one. I do believe that the newer style kilts are a modern evolvement of the traditional kilts. I feel that the so called kilt police who insist that kilts can never evlove are similar to those people who would have Tiger Woods using wooden heads and shafts instead of steel or Composite with Titanium heads, to drive Old Tom Morris' Feathery ball 170 yards instead of hitting the modern balls 350 yards.

[macwilkin]

I feel that the so called kilt police who insist that kilts can never evlove are similar to those people who would have Tiger Woods using wooden heads and shafts instead of steel or Composite with Titanium heads, to drive Old Tom Morris' Feathery ball 170 yards instead of hitting the modern balls 350 yards.

I am no golfer by any means, but what about someone that prefers wooden heads & shafts for his golf clubs? Someone who likes the "old"? Someone who doesn't feel that everyone should conform to his way of thinking, but on the same token, feels that he should be left to make up his own mind about what kind of club he wants to play with?

I think the majority of "traditionalists" here share this attitude: whilst we have own ideas & opinions (as everyone else does) about kilts & kilt-wearing, I know I believe that these are what's right for me, and I would not dare force them on someone else -- when asked, I will certainly give my opinion (for what it's worth), but if someone asks me to respect their "modern" kilt or their personal style, I certainly would hope for the same in return.

Regards,

Todd

[Dreadbelly]

Instead of all this bouncing back and forth about what tradition is... Why not define it?

Where does tradition begin and end? The Great Kilt? Oh wait, most people don't wear that as a day to day garmet. Not practical. Nope, that's kept in the closet and largely viewed as costume or for "special occasions."

Some of the more modern versions of the kilt have become traditional simply because they are more practical, right? I mean, I could be wrong here, but isn't that what it boils down to?

Tradition compared to what? The more I read about my family's history, the less I even see of kilt wearing. Dirty landless vegabonds. Thieves driven by situation and circumstance. Warriors. I am fairly certain that not to many folk in my family wore Prince Charlies and eight yard traditional tanks. I am betting that somewhere up the line, somebody might have wore a kilt, but I bet it was a filthy rag of some scrap of tartan, loosely bound about the waist as a great kilt. I bet they were dirty and bare foot... Or wearing clogs or crude moccasins. From the sounds of it... They were more particular about their weapons than their clothing, at least my family. I can see "tradition" there. In all their poverty, in all their shining proud accomplishments, in every moment of their lives it seems that folk, at least in my family, always kept a good weapon close at hand or used whatever might be handy. But it is a common theme I see in my family history... Is that tradition? It seems to me that I could be wearing any old rag... But as long as I have some sort of weapon tucked away in the folds I would be doing more to pay tribute to "tradition" than I would nitpicking over detail of dress.

I dunno. But it's got me thinking.

[Jerry]

I'm not saying that you or others are wrong by wanting to only go with traditional kilts, or in my example to use the antique golf equipment. I am saying that both are right. We can "choose" whatever we want for ourselves. Where we (including myself) go wrong is to say that evolvement and change is wrong. It's not wrong, just different. As I said, so far, I have only traditional styled tartan kilts. The solids which I have seen are also very traditional looking, with the three belts and buckles instead of snaps hooks or even velcro fasteners. While I personally like The "utilikilt look" fot myself, I don't see anything wrong with them for someone else.

[KMacT]

...those people who would have Tiger Woods using wooden heads and shafts instead of steel or Composite with Titanium heads...

In general I agree with your sentiments. People should be allowed to wear what they want (be it "traditional" or "modern"), traditions change and evolve, and respect should be given regardless.

But the golf analogy fails. It's a sport and there may be very valid reason to prohibit the use of certain clubs or balls. And in fact, there are such prohibitions. Modern golf balls and clubs, for example, must meet certain specifications before they are approved. And maybe the game would be better if played with old clubs just as baseball, I believe, is better played with wood bats (as is mandated in MLB) and tennis with wooden rackets (as is not mandated, much to the detriment of the sport).

Kevin