Ft. William, Thunder Bay, Canada

[tomcherv]

Was vacation with my family in the Thunder Bay, Ontario area and finally saw some kilts. (We live in Mpls/St. Paul, MN)

Ft. William (www.fwhp.ca) is a historical park that was originated by the NorthWest Company. Since NWC had Scottish founders, some of the guides / employees / reenactors / actors wore kilts. (3 of them actually - 1 of who played the pipes.) Sorry - don't know the tartan designs.

As I don't have a wearable kilt yet, I was not among the kilted that day. I didn't see any other kilts, either at Ft. William or anywhere else. A few times while hiking near the Kakabeca Falls and walking at Ft. William, I caught myself wondering just how much more comfortable I'd be in a kilt. Oh well - it may just be a while before I find out.

If you happen to travel to Thunder Bay, be sure to visit Ft. William - it is a well done site.

Tom

[macwilkin]

Thanks, Tom, for your post. One of my best friends visited Ft. William about five years ago and noted the strong Scottish influence, which you noted. The Northwest Company, or "Nor'westers", were pretty much a Scottish company, with a few French Canadians and Metis thrown in -- William MacGillivray, Simon Fraser, Alexander Mackenzie are just some of the many Scottish names associated with the NWC. The Hudson's Bay Company also had some Scots working for them as well, including a number of boatmen from the Orkney Islands.

Incidently, the local Canadian Army regiment, the Lake Superior Scottish Regiment, adopted the MacGillivray tartan back in the 1950's when the old Lake Superior Regiment decided to "go Scottish". The tartan was chosen for the Scottish connections at Ft. William:

http://www.lssr.ca/scottish.htm

Peter C. Newman's "Empire of the Bay" is a good read about the Canadian fur trade & he mentions the Scottish influence --also, "Great Scots!" by Matthew Shaw has a whole chapter on the trade.

Thunder Bay is on my "must visit someday" list!

Cheers,

Todd

[macwilkin]

Tom:

Have you been to Grand Portage National Monument?

http://www.nps.gov/grpo/index.htm

If you like Ft. William, I think you'll like Grand Portage.

T.

[tomcherv]

Yes, I have, but it was many years ago. We did drive close by, but we were under a time crunch and did not have the time to stop.

I did notice that the McGillivray tartan was quite prominent: the vests of the Visitor Center employees, framed on the wall, etc.

However, the kilt that our guide wore was not the McGillivray tartan, as it would have probably been his own family's tartan, rather than his employers.

If you're heading up to Thunder Bay, come by way of Minnesota and stop in Duluth (great ship watching) and Mpls-St. Paul. Fort Snelling is also staffed with guides and a fun place to visit. http://www.mnhs.org/places/sites/hfs/

It's right near the airport and major roads, so the planes and road noise kind of ruin the atmosphere. Ft. William is a 10 minute walk from the Visitor Center, so road noise is not audible.

[macwilkin]

Yes, I have, but it was many years ago. We did drive close by, but we were under a time crunch and did not have the time to stop.

I did notice that the McGillivray tartan was quite prominent: the vests of the Visitor Center employees, framed on the wall, etc.

However, the kilt that our guide wore was not the McGillivray tartan, as it would have probably been his own family's tartan, rather than his employers.

If you're heading up to Thunder Bay, come by way of Minnesota and stop in Duluth (great ship watching) and Mpls-St. Paul. Fort Snelling is also staffed with guides and a fun place to visit. http://www.mnhs.org/places/sites/hfs/

It's right near the airport and major roads, so the planes and road noise kind of ruin the atmosphere. Ft. William is a 10 minute walk from the Visitor Center, so road noise is not audible.

Ft. Snelling is another place on my "to visit" list, mostly because it has such a good reputation (like Ft. William and Louisbourg on Cape Breton Island) for historic interpretation -- at one time, Ft. Snelling fielded a 70-man infantry company in 1820's period US Army uniforms, as well as other costumed interpreters, to illustrate life in military forts along the Permanent Indian Frontier(PIF). I'm not too far from another fort on the PIF, Ft. Scott in Kansas (http://www.nps.gov/fosc). Like Snelling, Ft. Scott is literaly in the middle of downton Fort Scott (the town grew around the fort), so the street lights and "town sounds" ruin the atmosphere, especially at night.

So many historic sites, so little time! ;)

Cheers,

Todd

[tomcherv]

If you hit Ft. Snelling at the right time, the Civil War reenactors from the Minnesota First are there.

That's when it gets really fun.

[Sciuropterus]

My wife actually got to spend a night camping inside the walls of Fort Snelling, it was one of the stops on a 40-mile Mississippi River kayak/canoe trip to raise money for river clean-up. I visited her group that evening, I had not been there since I was a kid, even though I only live ten minutes away.

All the staff was in costume and in character, I especially liked the sutler (storekeeper), his character was very funny, he was complaining about being stuck in Minnesota and longing for his civilized home in St. Louis. He had nothing but contempt for anyone who would want to settle in godforsaken Minnesota. They woke up the campers with a cannon the next morning!

It reminded me a bit of the Halifax Citadel (Nova Scotia) on a much smaller scale.

[macwilkin]

My wife actually got to spend a night camping inside the walls of Fort Snelling, it was one of the stops on a 40-mile Mississippi River kayak/canoe trip to raise money for river clean-up. I visited her group that evening, I had not been there since I was a kid, even though I only live ten minutes away.

All the staff was in costume and in character, I especially liked the sutler (storekeeper), his character was very funny, he was complaining about being stuck in Minnesota and longing for his civilized home in St. Louis. He had nothing but contempt for anyone who would want to settle in godforsaken Minnesota. They woke up the campers with a cannon the next morning!

It reminded me a bit of the Halifax Citadel (Nova Scotia) on a much smaller scale.

I had failed to mention the Halifax Citadel -- they maintain a living history company there portraying the 78th Highlanders (Seaforths) which is noted for their accuracy in their portrayal.

Not to drift OT here, but I have participated in candlelight tours of the aforementioned Ft. Scott in Kansas and Ft. Osage, a War of 1812 fort outside of Kansas City. They are very effective programs when done well, and can transport folks "back in time" for a brief instant! Besides, they're just a lot of fun!

Cheers,

Todd

[awoodfellow]

Each and every time I visit XMarks, I learn something new. Whether its history, fashion or handling day to day stress; I come away with something new. Kudos to caj and others for sharing their knowledge.

The North Woods is my dream and just the name Thunder Bay elicits longing and melancholy in my heart. Through the years upon family vacations I’ve been able to see and experience many things. From Pikes Peak to West Quoddy, up to PEI and back again. But my most favored places are Down East Maine and the Yupper Michigan. Those are the closest I can compare to being in the North Woods.

I certainly don't mean to hi-jack this thread and if the moderator sees fit, delete or move this post of mine elsewhere .....

Years ago we took a three week vacation to Niagara, Upstate New York, the Adirondacks and on into Canada. To be honest, it's been so long ago I don't remember exactly where in Canada we went. Of course tent camping was in vogue and we had the big canvas tent that had to be resealed every year with water repellent and all the Coleman equipment including an aluminum folding camp table. Travelers Checks, in the little folded wallet, was the currency of safe campers, and as it were and shall always be, Mom was in charge of the Travelers Checks.

We had been traveling for what seemed days and finally arrived at a camping area somewhere in Canada. We pulled out all the equipment and set up camp. The only thing that didn't get set up was the Coleman aluminum folding table. the sun had set, we had a campfire going and as a joke, Dad, as Mom's rear end was in close proximity to the campfire, decided to toss about a shot glass worth of Coleman White Gas into the fire. Of course, there was a brilliant flash of light, a whoosh of flame, and Mom was not amused. After a while we could tell that Mom was upset. I thought it was about the fire incident with Dad, but apparently she couldn't find the Travelers Checks. She had lost them.

There we were. Right smack in the middle of the Canadian North Woods with raccoons and black squirrels and all kind of gleamy eyed night creatures just a-moaning and a-croaking and a-growling and a slithering around. Not that we were spooked or anything. But then, we were kids. It didn't take much to spook us. And Mom had lost the Travelers Checks. She was visibly upset. She was searching purses and glove compartments and cubby holes and trying to find the Travelers Checks. But as luck would have it, they were gone. We had no cash. Just the food in the Coleman cooler and some gas in the car. Certainly not enough reserve to get us back home.

Dad decided that we'd go to the nearest town, find the bank and, of course, claim the Travelers Checks were lost and await a new bundle of checks. Well, apparently the town and bank we visited didn't deal with Travelers Checks at the time. So there we were. A thousand miles from home, a car full of kids, and no way to get back home.

Dad talked with the bank manager and explained the situation. And the bank manager with an open heart and all the goodness within, literally opened his own wallet and gave Dad enough cash to get us back to the States. If I recall correctly, it was thirty dollars Canadian.

Well, we made it back to the States, Dad hit the closest Travelers Check enabled bank and we were set again. The obvious route was to head back home. At the next campground we unloaded all the gear, set up camp, opened the Official Coleman Aluminum Folding Camp Table and, damn it to hell, out falls the missing Travelers Checks. Mom had hidden them there for fear of robbers.

Dad didn't waste any time, he stoked a campfire and had it roaring in no time. Then, without any to-dos, he started handing all us kids 20 dollar Travelers Checks and saying we could toss them in the fire. We had a grand old time burning money and laughing with Mom.

Not to mention that while on the trip we were on Route 13 in New York. As we approached a split in the road, a sign read 13 Bears to The Right ...... about 15 minutes later my younger brother inquired as to were those bears were.

I don't know if Dad sent the thirty dollars back to the Canadian bank manager. I'm sure he did. I wish I knew the Bank Manager for I would thank him and make sure that Dad repaid the loan.

God Bless Canada and especially "The Bank Manager".

'brose