The New Scottish Super Regiment - Trews vs Kilts

[awoodfellow]

http://news.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=1674732005

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New kilt the 'final insult' to soldiers.......

IAIN LUNDY

THE three Lowland infantry regiments, whose members have traditionally worn tartan trews for centuries, will be forced to wear kilts when the government's planned new Scottish "super-regiment" is formed next year.

Outraged ex-servicemen, who already believe that the loss of their individual regiments is tantamount to erasing much of Scotland's military history, say the imposition of a uniform kilted dress code further erodes their regimental identity.

Campaigners for the three regiments - the Royal Scots, the King's Own Scottish Borderers and the Royal Highland Fusiliers - claim tartan trews have been worn by Scottish soldiers since the mid 17th century, almost 75 years before kilts were introduced.

"This government is doing to us what Hitler never managed to do, wiping us out and at the stroke of a pen," said Malcolm Nichol, former secretary of the Berwick branch of the King's Own Scottish Borderers and a member of the regiment for 26 years.

"We are very, very angry about this. The regiment will have no identity left at all and 316 years of history will be down the drain. It is heartbreaking. Everybody looks at Scottish soldiers and thinks we all wear the kilt. It is not true, we are proud to be Lowlanders, we don't want to be Highlanders," said Nichol.

Kilts are worn by the three existing Highland regiments, The Black Watch, the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders and The Highlanders. It is believed the Ministry of Defence favours the government tartan worn by the Argylls as the uniform for the new Scottish regiment.

The government plans to merge the KOSB and the Royal Scots into one battalion then amalgamate it with the remaining four regiments to form the Royal Regiment of Scotland. According to campaigners, the Council of Scottish Colonels, which rubber-stamped the amalgamation, is now "squabbling" over the precise details of the new regiment's uniform.

Retired KOSB Brigadier Allan Allstead said: "We are losing everything, we are being absolutely done down in the biggest possible way and I feel particularly bitter about the way it has been done."

Charlie McGrogan, a former colour sergeant with the Royal Scots, said: "It looks as thought someone in the Ministry of Defence has sat down and gone through his book of English prejudices and decided to sort Scotland out. All these prejudices are coming to roost in the new uniform."

Regimental secretary of the Royal Highland Fusiliers, Major William Shaw, said, "When people talk about Scotland overseas the image is kilts. When I heard about this, people of my vintage were saying 'no way'." But he admitted: "The young element in the regiment don't seem to mind."

A spokesman for the Army in Scotland confirmed the decision had been taken by the Scottish Council of Colonels that the new regiment should wear kilts. But he added: "Each of the existing regiments will retain something from their uniforms, possibly hackles or flashes."

[macwilkin]

It makes my heart sad to see history & tradition destroyed like this.

Raise your glasses on high, while a toast I propose.
“To the glory of Scotland. And to Hell wi’ her foes.
To the brave lads who died, for each cause that arose”.
They brought honor and glory to Scotland.

Those bold kilted warriors life’s blood was shed.
That the proud Lion Rampant, fly free overhead,
The ”Ladies from Hell”, were the enemy’s dread.
They brought honour and glory to Scotland.

Their piper they followed, through each battlefield.
And they gallantly fought, till the enemy reeled.
Until victory was theirs, for they never would yield.
They brought honour, and glory to Scotland.

Now! A toast to the heros of World War Two.
Who fought all through Europe, and Africa too.
Who died in the Far East, for me, and for you.
And the honour and glory of Scotland.

And let us drink to the end, of that curse we abhor.
The death, and destruction, and horror of war.
But stay ready to fight, for the land we adore.
And the honour, and glory, of Scotland.

-- http://www.simplyscottish.com/readin...burn_poems.htm

[sav]

It makes my heart sad to see history & tradition destroyed like this.

You're not the only one. My great-grandfather and grandfather are rolling in their graves over amalgamation. Being a military historian (with Scotland as my focus) and a reenactor of Scottish regiments, I'm both enraged and saddened. In 1994, my great-grandfather's pride and joy, The Gordons, were amalgamated. He was still alive at the time, and it was the only time in my life that I had seen this hardy, stoic man weep. Hopefully, the traditions and histories of each of these regiments will not be lost, through the efforts of many devoted people in regimental museums, veterans, reenactors, etc. And I'm not ashamed to say, Todd, that when I read that poem you posted, it really got me choked up.

I beseech all of you! Visit the "Save the Scottish Regiments" website and sign the petition!!!

~Sav

[macwilkin]

You're not the only one. My great-grandfather and grandfather are rolling in their graves over amalgamation. Being a military historian (with Scotland as my focus) and a reenactor of Scottish regiments, I'm both enraged and saddened. In 1994, my great-grandfather's pride and joy, The Gordons, were amalgamated. He was still alive at the time, and it was the only time in my life that I had seen this hardy, stoic man weep. Hopefully, the traditions and histories of each of these regiments will not be lost, through the efforts of many devoted people in regimental museums, veterans, reenactors, etc. And I'm not ashamed to say, Todd, that when I read that poem you posted, it really got me choked up.

I beseech all of you! Visit the "Save the Scottish Regiments" website and sign the petition!!!

~Sav

Military history was also my emphasis in university, Sav, and I have been interested in the Scottish regiments of the British Army since I was a "wee yin".

Unfortunately, the "scuttlebutt" is that not even the regimental museums will be spared from the politician's pen.

Todd

[GMan]

How sad this whole thing is.

[bubba]

Westminster does take great delight in destroying anything that isn't strictly English. I wish the Scots would stand up and say "enough".

Free Scotland

[macwilkin]

Westminster does take great delight in destroying anything that isn't strictly English. I wish the Scots would stand up and say "enough".

Free Scotland

Sadly, it's not just the Scottish regiments, Bubba. English and Welsh regiments, many with equally long histories and traditions are being sacrificed on the budget & ledger-sheet altar.

This story from the BBC details all of the proposed cuts & amalgamations:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4102013.stm

Todd

[davedove]

Not that I want to see them go, but what's happening in the United Kingdom is what has already happened in other armies. You don't see Illinois regiments or Texas regiments in the US anymore except in the National Guard, and even they are being pulled into "Big Army". I'm sure the same kinds of discussions happened here as well. What is bound to happen is there may be a few special units in the active military, but most of these regiments will only be known through history and reenactors. Times change and the military has to change with it. Sad, but true.

[macwilkin]

Not that I want to see them go, but what's happening in the United Kingdom is what has already happened in other armies. You don't see Illinois regiments or Texas regiments in the US anymore except in the National Guard, and even they are being pulled into "Big Army". I'm sure the same kinds of discussions happened here as well. What is bound to happen is there may be a few special units in the active military, but most of these regiments will only be known through history and reenactors. Times change and the military has to change with it. Sad, but true.

Yes and no, Dave. I have worked with personnel from all the branches of the US military, and there is some esprit-de-corps and military history out there -- the Marines are No. 1, but the 3rd Infantry Regt. (The Old Guard), the 9th Infantry Regt. (The Manchus) and the 3rd Armored Cavalry Regt. (Brave Rifles) are also doing a great job as well.

The thing to remember is that the British Army MADE the regimental system what it is. The US Army began to abandon the regimental system around the time of the First World War, although the history is still around in some places. Unit history & tradition never really left the National Guard in the first place, and many units in the guard and reserves still trace their lineage back to "historic" regiments -- there was even a move to re-activate the old 79th New York Highlanders several years ago. The 69th NY is still around, as well as the Washington Artillery (now a transportation unit) of New Orleans. Our local unit, the 203rd Combat Engineer Battalion (The Hound Dawgs) still looks to its past as the old 2nd Missouri Infantry.

I believe that an army, be it the US, British or other Commonwealth nations (these are the three that I'm most familiar with, so hence my examples) can be updated to fit the times without sacrificing history and tradition. Reenactors, historians (civilian and military) and the National Park Service, Parks Canada, etc. play a part in preserving it. All of the officers and other ranks I have talked to in my time with the park service acknowledge the effect that unit traditions, esprit-de-corps, etc. have on serving troops.

Cheers,

Todd

[bubba]

There is a fundamental absurdity involved in this garbage. In the kind of operations called for today large units are ineffective and counterproductive. The kind of wars being fought today are better suited to small unit operationsFielding the biggest army with the heaviest weapons insn't the advantage it was a century ago. Combining units into bigger single units might make life easier for the bean counters, but does nothing for combat effectiveness.