Sword Question?

[Woodsheal]

You can be sure of one thing: if more people wore swords, there would be a definite DECREASE in rudeness...!

[Doc Hudson]

You can be sure of one thing: if more people wore swords, there would be a definite DECREASE in rudeness...!

AN ARMED SOCIETY IS A POLITE SOCIETY

[Archangel]

Courtesy is the first martial art, if everybody can master that, the other martial arts become unnecessary.
I don't know if that's from Funakoshi or Myagi, etc, it's not mine.

[arrogcow]

I am not a Marine, I am US Army Armor and we typically wear Cavalry accrutiments with our dress uniforms even though they ARE NOT specifically allowed by Army Regulation 670-1.

As far as I can tell US Army pipers in full Scotish regailia are for all intents and purposes wearing CIVILLIAN clothing not a uniform. Now you and I know that that is BS as Scotish highland civil regailia and British Army highland regailia are so intertwined now as to really blur any distinction between them.

Any way, if I ever wear my dress blues again I will wear them with a kilt, no it is not authorized but neither is it forbidden. I might, if I ever wear the sword to a formal dinner again, wear the Claymore with it instead of the M-1850 Cavalry sword as the two are the same size.

I'm a little puzzled. First, since when can you wear anything not dress blues (kilt or otherwise) to a formal military function? Second, I personally rarely saw anyone wearing their saber in a dress uniform (for the record Ex- Us Army Armor (Cavalry)). But thirdly I was always told that if I really felt the need for a sword, to make sure that it was a Cavalry saber and nothing else (not even an Army authorized Infantry saber).

Finally, and just curious, are you really Cav or just armor? Cause most Cav really don't like DAT's wearing Cav regaila :-).

Adam

If you ain't Cav, you ain't...

[Sir Robert]

Yeah the "Cavalry Branch" don't like Dumb *** Tankers to wear "their" stuff.

Well the Armor Branch is properly the decendants of heavy cavalry but for political reasons in the 1920s it was made by law to be a sub-component of the Infantry Branch.

The modern Cavalry Branch are scouts who were in fact civilian contractors way back when and have as little direct relationship to the old horse Cavalry as the tankers.

The fact is that both Armor and Cavalry Branches are about to be rolled into one (MOS 19D) kinda ends the debate anyway.

I have served in both so I can claim both...

The bottom line is as I set up my uniform it will be with pants so I wont be wearing a kilt so I'll go with the Cavalry Saber any way. When I go to another function I'll be in a rental tuxedo and for the last I'll be in a Prince Charley w/kilt, sans sword. Just about the only place I'll be able to have fun will be out tonight clubbing in New Orleans.

[cavscout]

This is a question about USMC traditions, it's not meant to be smart-alecky. I know different forces have their own "rules" and formal in one would be wrong in another. (e.g. only one highland regiment can wear a skean dhu in dress uniform, it was never part of the official kit. argh, where is my reference for that?) Having no awareness, except that I think that US Marines can carry a sword because of "the shores of Tripoli" (is that correct so far?), is a kilt a choice in a full dress situation? Is there a choice of swords? How much latitude do the regulations allow? I don't even know the correct terms but what a marine would wear at presidential inspection would be different than leaving for leave. How much room is there for those choices?

http://www.russellsformen.com/03mids.../atc-1186.html

NCO's E-4 and above may carry this weapon. This is allowed in honor of the fact that at the Battle of Bellau Woods so many of the officers were killed or wounded that the NCO's led the Marine's to victory.

The Mamalluke sword (Officer's Sword) was awarded to Lt. Preseley Obanion by the ruler of Libya for defeating the barbery Pirates.

[Archangel]

http://www.russellsformen.com/03mids.../atc-1186.html

NCO's E-4 and above may carry this weapon. This is allowed in honor of the fact that at the Battle of Bellau Woods so many of the officers were killed or wounded that the NCO's led the Marine's to victory.

The Mamalluke sword (Officer's Sword) was awarded to Lt. Preseley Obanion by the ruler of Libya for defeating the barbery Pirates.

fascinating, thanks, hadn't realized that there were two traditions.

[Sir Robert]

On Kilts I found that a dozen people came up to me in the New Orleans French Quarter and complemented me on my kilt, my new wife who dressed to match me and was stunningly beautiful didn't even get a wolf whistle. I know now why men wear drab clothing, so as not to detract from their girl.

On Swords, the sword didn't get a mention good or bad, it just was a part of the uniform. Several people had never seen a set of dress blues and asked about that.

On the tradition of the sword as a part of the NCO uniform, the sword predates the concepts of uniforms or NCOs. In the War of Northern Aggression, there were several differing types of swords: Cavalry, Infantry Officer's, Medical Officer's, Artillery, NCO and Masonic, just to name a few.

As to what is or is not allowed, what is or is not a uniform is fuzzy, if it looks like a uniform, then it is a uniform the law specifies who can wear a uniform but not what one is. Military Regulations often do not mention swords but you see them all the time at formals.

[cavscout]

On the tradition of the sword as a part of the NCO uniform, the sword predates the concepts of uniforms or NCOs. In the War of Northern Aggression, there were several differing types of swords: Cavalry, Infantry Officer's, Medical Officer's, Artillery, NCO and Masonic, just to name a few.

As to what is or is not allowed, what is or is not a uniform is fuzzy, if it looks like a uniform, then it is a uniform the law specifies who can wear a uniform but not what one is. Military Regulations often do not mention swords but you see them all the time at formals.

I'm not sure if this was addressing my post, but if so, I was addressing the the tradition that led to the regulation about Marine Corps Swords. The army handles many things differently ;) I'm comfortable saying that as I served in both.

Now regs and practices are two different things. If you are reporting to a new assignment or standing inspection you better know the regs. But many a young soldier will be tolerated a few extra bells and whistles on his uniform at a formal event to impress his companion. ;)

[Orvis]

I agree that carrying a sword with a kilt is out of place in kilted civilian attire. Carrying weapons is appropriate for living history Highland reenactors or for uniformed members of pipe bands and color guards, because the context is military. Except for the aforementioned, I believe wearing a dirk (except perhaps as a bejeweled accessory to full Highland evening dress) is pushing it, too. My observation at various games has been that some kilted guys seem to believe they aren't really Scots unless they hang all the cold steel possible on and about themselves. I've even seen kilted guys wearing khukris and "Conan the Barbarian" fantasy daggers. Such spectacles make it that much harder for the public to take seriously kilts and the men wearing them.

For those who want swords, I agree that most modern baskethilt broadswords have hilts too big and blades too heavy, many of inferior steel. Handling real 18th c. baskethilt swords has shown me that hilts were smaller and the blades light, flexible and nimble - weight was no more than three pounds. For authentic custom replicas, I recommend Donnie Shearer (doing business as the Mad Piper) out of White House TN, or Armour Class of Glasgow, Scotland, or Vince Evans of Arizona. You can get some of these custom replicas with sharp blades, in case you want to go out back and do some weed-whacking. These replicas cost significant dollars. You can see examples at www.MyArmory.com or at www.themadpiper.com. The aforementioned crafstmen also make authentic replica dirks, as does Glenn McClain of Indiana. Again, they're not cheap.

Slainte,
Gerry