Looking for first kilt and I have questions

[yoippari]

I have done *some* searching for kilts and have come up with some basic knowlege. Kilts come in everything from four yards to nine yards. Good tartan wool is expensive, along with a good sporran. Women love kilts.

I found untilikilt a while ago, but I don't really want a solid color kilt yet, perhaps as a second kilt. I found sportkilt and stillwater kilts and while I like some of sportkilt's sporrans and stillwater's wool kilt, I simply don't have the money to buy a sporran and plastic clothing of any kind is out of the question as I plan on wearing the kilt around a forge.

I started looking around locally and found a kilt store about three or four miles away from my house. This is Kilt & Thistle Scottish Shoppe AKA kilts.com. I went in and found the people there very informative and friendy. While their kilts and sporrans are out of my price range, buying two yards of double width wool and sending it and a pattern (and some money for her time) to my grandma is very doable. My grandma has not agreed to make the kilt yet (she said she would need to see a pattern first) and has said that it will take some time (which I don't mine). My questions are: is there a four or five yard kilt pattern out there or are they just the same as an eight yard but with half deep pleats? And: do you adjust the number of pleats or the width of the apron when sizing (or is that detailed with the pattern)?

I also plan on making my own sporran. I have a white tail deer tail laying around somewhere and I can get leather easy enough. I spent some time making a cardboard and masking tape prototype to work off of and found one or two problems. My dimensions are 5-1/2" wide (at the middle) x 6" tall x 2-1/2"(?) deep tapering up, the mouth is 4" across x 1-1/2" deep but that includes the folded in cardboard (seam) and a bunch of masking tape. The width at the top makes it a little difficult to get my hand in to the bottom but I imagine that a leather one will be less static than cardboard. Do these dimensions sound about right? And how "static" should a leather sporran with a flap (not the fish mouth or whatever term is used) opening be?

In case you haven't noticed I make long posts. If you want I could cut out some of the rambling but if a little extra reading doesn't bother anyone I will continue my essay length posts.

[Dreadbelly]

I make long posts too. So long as you have something to say, (which you do) nobody minds.

Welcome!

Edit. topy. Er, ytpo. Er, otpy. Wait, typo.

[Riverkilt]

There's always Barb's book, The Art of Kiltmaking and a very recent post on making your own kilt, think on the contemporary kilt thread that would either help, or further confuse, your grandmother.

Ron

[Jimmy Carbomb]

Just so no one makes this mistake... don't ever try to make a traditional look out of 4 yards of material as it just won't work. Trying to make pleats 1/2 the depth in order to have more pleats will only produce a kilt that has "accordion" pleats. In other words, the pleats will not sway at all, and will only look like and accordion when stretched. It's not a pretty sight.

[KMacT]

Just so no one makes this mistake... don't ever try to make a traditional look out of 4 yards of material as it just won't work. Trying to make pleats 1/2 the depth in order to have more pleats will only produce a kilt that has "accordion" pleats. In other words, the pleats will not sway at all, and will only look like and accordion when stretched. It's not a pretty sight.

So what then is the ideal (or minimum) ratio between depth of pleats and width of pleats? Jimmy is saying (if I understand correctly) that a ration of 2:1 does not work. At what point does it start to work? 2.5:1? 3:1? 4:1? ...

And does it matter what fabric is used? Would heavyweight wool be more forgiving than lightweight, for example?

Kevin

[Jimmy Carbomb]

A depth and reveal that equal will work if the depth is 3.5" and the reveal is 3.5"... but it will look silly. Those are some WIDE pleats brother!

For a kilt (if the tartan repeat is workable) is to work around a 3-3.5" depth to a 3/4" reveal. That's not "always" possible since some tartan patterns are smaller or larger. You'll see what I mean as you go and check-out more material.

As a rule of thumb, try to make the depth around the depth of your pointer finger. It's not an exact thing, but it's a nice/easy way to see the "workability" of the pattern.

As for the weight of the wool... both make great kilts. The thicker will take more time and a different method of pressing to get it to stay with knife pleats, but it's a finished product that's superior in strength and look. The sway will also be enhanced with the actual material weight in the pleats.

Just try to find a "tight" weave that won't allow stains to penetrate the material as easily. That's only a problem if you're looking to wear the kilt at Pubs and outdoor events really.

~If you're going to stick with the 4-yard (approximate) kilt, you'll need to adjust the pleats to a wider reveal, and possibly consider making it "to the stripe" in order to get some depth. It's normal for a casual, and CAN still look pretty sharp if the stripes are vibrant. It will draw the eye to the stripe configuration, and pull it away from the actual number of pleats.

[chasem]

Okay, Jimmy. You've got me curious now. I've got Barb's book, and a little over 6 yards of MacLachlan material coming to me. Before I Start on that, though, I've ordered 4 yards of stewart hunting to try my hand at first.

I was planning on doing a casual/traditional (wider pleats, being as it's less material) with the Stewart (pleated ot the stripe), but I'm a little unsure now, reading what you've wrote.

I guess my question is, will following Barb's book for traditional instructions still work, as long as I widen the pleats, but keep them uniform?

[Shay]

By the way- take into consideration how wide the fabric is, too- not just how long it is when buying fabric.

For example, if the fabric is 45 inches wide from selvage to selvage (the finished sides that won't unravel), to get eight yards of fabric that are 22 1/2 inches long, you only need to buy four yards, cut it in half, and either hem the top, put a waitband over the raw edges, or hem the bottom. Also, add in plus whatever you might want for matching sporrans, belt loops, etc. (Waistbands are the tricky part to measure out when estimating yardage!) Just make sure that the seam where you join the two pieces together is the point of an inside pleat or somewhere non-noticable.

Iif you're going to need longer fabric than 1/2 the width of the fabric you'd have to buy as many yards as you want in the finished kilt.

I like knife pleats- which are a three to one ratio. So- I need six inches for each two inch pleat- Two inches outside, two inches back inside, two inches to the start of the next pleat. Try folding graph paper the way you want your pleats- it will give you a good idea of ratios, and a thought on how you want the pleats to hang.

Here's a good page on pleats in general, it's for sewing historical garments, but it's the only page I can find with most kinds of pleats pictures in one spot:
http://costume.dm.net/pleats/

[Jimmy Carbomb]

I was planning on doing a casual/traditional (wider pleats, being as it's less material) with the Stewart (pleated ot the stripe), but I'm a little unsure now, reading what you've wrote.

I guess my question is, will following Barb's book for traditional instructions still work, as long as I widen the pleats, but keep them uniform?

The repeat/pattern will answer that better than I can. It will also determine whether you can pleat it to the stripe or sett. ALWAYS remember that you need to allow for the under-apron when you're doing the math. Too many people forget that material when they're adding-up the available amount.

Whether you're making a "casual" or a "traditional" kilt, Barb's sewing techniques are the best to use... and are what's taught when you learn from the "Master Kilt Makers". I had to open my mind to the new hand-sewing techniques that they taught me, and they do it because it works BEST.

Use her sewing techniques to make a truly beautiful and quality kilt. Use YOUR calculations for the pleat depth and width to get the best use of the available material. Combine the two and you just can't go wrong!

For what it's worth... I actually LIKE the look of a handsewn casual. The hidden stitching and the drape are exceptional on a casual, and are rare to see. Do the math carefully so that you have a beautiful kilt!

" Measure Twice... Sew Once."

[KMacT]

Use her sewing techniques to make a truly beautiful and quality kilt. Use YOUR calculations for the pleat depth and width to get the best use of the available material. Combine the two and you just can't go wrong!

I've created a simple spreadsheet that helps do the calculations for pleating to the stripe and takes into consideration the size of the sett, the size of the waist and the number of yards of material. Very helpful to me and great for comparison purposes. Anyone who wants it should send me an email (not a PM, only an email - see below for my address).

Kevin