Military tartans

[Barb T]

Hi Kiltie as charged!

I play pipes with the Mohawk Valley Frasers Pipes and Drums, and, when the band was formed in 1973, it was originally called the 78th Frasers Highlanders. The band even played in period uniforms (right down to a thatch of genuine bear fur on the bonnets and a leather stock at the neck to protect against bayonet thrusts).

When a certain grade 1 band formed in Canada and became more famous than us (the 78th Fraser Highlanders), we changed our name to Mohawk Valley Frasers.

I've put an image below of what the old uniforms looked like.

Barb

[Manu]

As a Marine myself, Im also overprotective when it comes to our uniforms and insignias. I appreciate the support, but the line should be drawn somewhere. As for the tartan, I think civilians can wear it as long as they are respecting it and honoring the colors.

[davedove]

I know what you mean Iñaki. I was in the Army and it always bothers me to see people wearing parts of uniforms, or ribbons and medals as fashion decorations. I'll bet most of them have no idea what they represent. If I decided to wear a military tartan, it would probably be an Army one, because of my service and the fact that I still work for the Army as a civilian. On certain occasions, I might wear a Navy tartan, to honor both of my grandfathers from WWI. Although I like the Leatherneck tartan, I would not wear it, because I have no real ties to it. And to everyone else, although you can wear any tartan you like, do so with knowledge and respect.

[Prester John]

This link

http://www.alexismalcolmkilts.bigstep.com/generic14.html;$sessionid$TEDMWNIAAAC0HTZENUFUTIWP ERWRJPX0

has several military tartans. I have a relative in the USAF, but I don't know if he'd be interested in one not in the family clan tartan.

The US Army tartan is nice, and I've not seen it before this site.

[davedove]

The US Army tartan is nice, and I've not seen it before this site.

Alexis helped a gentleman from the army design the tartan and get it registered with the Tartan Authority. I plan to get a kilt in that tartan as soon as budget allows.

[Archangel]

grew up in a way most people see as long haired hippy type, I never saw myself that way. I was always taught that if blood was spilled you respect it. It's okay to wear any tartan but the Royals but if it's military, I was taught, you owe it to the grunts to have a link or at least be fully aware and respectful of the history. I respect that.

Two questions: Riverkilt, you said your brother was a D.I., what's that?
The Polaris link was 404, what's the Polaris history?

[GatorUK]

The Polaris link was 404, what's the Polaris history?

http://www.electricscotland.com/tartans/story3.htm

The link should be back up.

I guess the gist of the post in the link was whether the Polaris or the Edzell is the one and only "recognized" U.S. Navy Tartan. The midshipman that posted part of it stated, "The Polaris tartan was designed for the officers and men of the American Submarine base at the Holy Loch - making the Polaris submarine the first ship in history to have its own tartan."

Just to be 1 - Devil's advocate and, 2 - Just because it's enjoyabe to make fun of midshipmen, I'll toss out the following:

The most obvious, submarines are boats, not ships.

Polaris is not a ship (or boat) but a weapon system (UGM-27 Polaris), that was deployed on two classes of submarines. The George Washington, Lafayette, James Madison, and Benjamin Franklin were the first subs to have Polaris deployed. The Ethan Allen class submarines, which are, Ethan Allen, Sam Houston, Thomas A. Edison, John Marshall, and Thomas Jefferson were built from keel up for the Polaris weapon system.

So, now we know that the Polaris tartan was named for a weapon and not a ship or boat. With all the "you can wear any tartan" arguments aside. Could a crewmember of lets say a Fast Attack sub in Holy Loch that does not carry the Polaris missile have a claim to the Polaris tartan?

Now to futher confuse the issue as to whether it is an exclusively US Military tartan, the Royal Navy submarines HMS Resolution, Repulse, Renown and Revenge also carried the Polaris weapon system and were stationed down the road from Holy Loch at Faslane. Could Royal Navy sailors on these boats have a "claim" to the Polaris Tartan? Hmmmm....

Now, on to the US Navy Edzell tartan. This tartan was designed for the US Naval Security Group Activity, RAF Edzell (of which I am an alumni). Can this be an exclusive US Navy tartan? Well, to look at what the designers wanted to convey in their color choice: The dark blue is for the US Navy. The white represents the waves of the ocean. So far so good. The light blue however represents the Air Force personnel stationed there. The red is for the Marine Support Battallion and the Army personnel on board. Sooooo..could Air Force, Marine or Army personnel have a "claim" to wear this tartan? Is it exclusive US Military? The "landlord" for the Base was an RAF Squadron Leader.

So, as I see it, even though there is not an "official" US Navy Tartan, proponents of either tartan can not claim the Edzell or Polaris is exlcusive to the US Navy. I can however understand why "Bubbleheads" get upset when so many tartan suppliers and kilt makers advertise a US Navy tartan and only show the Edzell tartan.

Personally, I don't see a problem with two Navy tartans. It just gives me an excuse to get another kilt. Unfortunately, from calls I've made and what I've seen on this forum, the Polaris tartan is not available or very hard to find. I already have an Edzell kilt and would like nothing better than to have a Polaris kilt to honor my shipmates in the Silent Service.

[James]

It is too easy to forget that men died when wearing this or that uniform: be it the USMC or my own British Regiment.

This means that anything which suggests membership of such an organisation must be earned: be it by the right of passage that is the drill square-or by sevice-possibly action.

So whilst certain exceptions of honour can be made-in respect of enactors in correct uniform honouring the event-or children wearing medals on the other side at say an ANZAC parade: for others the uniform-insignia-medals etc are sacrosant.

So regardless of what the book might say, unless you have earned the right to a military tartan/medal/insignia or whatever-you do not wear it.

There are plenty of other tartans, be they district or say Jacobite that can be worn: so please respect the honour and dignity of the various units and their insignia.

To put this another way-if I as a Brit was rude enough to wear the tartan of say the USMC-I'd rightly expect to be kicked to hell and beyond by any Marine I encountered.

Need I say more.

James

[Archangel]

To put this another way-if I as a Brit was rude enough to wear the tartan of say the USMC-I'd rightly expect to be kicked to hell and beyond by any Marine I encountered.

Need I say more.

James

not to condone the degree of violence suggested, it would be fair to given an opportunity to explain why the tartan is being worn.

[macwilkin]

It is too easy to forget that men died when wearing this or that uniform: be it the USMC or my own British Regiment.

This means that anything which suggests membership of such an organisation must be earned: be it by the right of passage that is the drill square-or by sevice-possibly action.

So whilst certain exceptions of honour can be made-in respect of enactors in correct uniform honouring the event-or children wearing medals on the other side at say an ANZAC parade: for others the uniform-insignia-medals etc are sacrosant.

So regardless of what the book might say, unless you have earned the right to a military tartan/medal/insignia or whatever-you do not wear it.

There are plenty of other tartans, be they district or say Jacobite that can be worn: so please respect the honour and dignity of the various units and their insignia.

To put this another way-if I as a Brit was rude enough to wear the tartan of say the USMC-I'd rightly expect to be kicked to hell and beyond by any Marine I encountered.

Need I say more.

James

I agree with you, James, but there would be a reason for a Royal Welch Fusilier to wear the USMC tartan, since the RWF and the USMC have a special relationship thanks to their joint service in the Boxer Rebellion in 1900. Other US units are "twinned" with British & Commonwealth forces from joint service in past actions, so certainly that honour could be represented by wearing a regimental tartan.

Cheers,

Todd