Sewing the inside pleats of AmeriKilt??

[Riverkilt]

I know one of UK's intents sewing the underpleats was to save ironing.

I don't iron my UKs. Hang them dry but also use those weighted clamps (hanger clip with two 1/2 ounce fishing weights duct taped to it) on each seam to "pull" the seam while it dries.

Guessing, if I did try removing the underpleat seams all I'd have to do when I hung the kilt to dry would be to put the weight where I'd iron the seam and let the seams dry that way....same as now only having to take a bit more time to insure the underseam fold.

Ron

[Riverkilt]

So Jimmy...I read about going through the hem seam for each underpleat seam but I'm not sure I understand it. Seems like I'd have to be very very careful doing it...?

Also, did you leave the seam across the back of the back pockets of the workman's in or take it out and let the pockets go free? Doesn't seem like there'd be much change if I only take the underpleat seams out to the pocket seam for those in that location.

Sorry for all the questions...just don't wanna screw it up...

Thanks,

Ron

[Jimmy Carbomb]

Ron, it's more work than it's worth to even attempt to take the sewing out from the pockets. There's enough "relief" with the seam ripping elsewhere to make it a "no problem" point. There's really not THAT MUCH tension with the UtiliKilts that the rest of the pleats can not manage.

As for the hem stitching... it's up to you whether or not to leave it in, or rip it out. It's so minimal a length that you can actually leave it. My PittsburghKilts have the hem stitched on the underside, but not the pleats... and it hangs PERFECTLY. It's a great example of how the tension relief is managed by the free-flowing under-pleating.

As for the comparison of other garments and kilts... well... that's why there are trained kiltmakers, and not just a bunch of tailors with tartans. It's an entirely different animal. The primary reason is that kilts are traditionally made by hand, whereas modern apparel is made by machine. Only the true fitted garments are done by hand to custom mold to measurements... LIKE KILTS. There's a huge difference in a machined kilt, and a hand-made to fit. Some may not see or feel it, and that's okay... but it is there.

This, to me, is like driving a 4-wheel drive truck comfortably all your life, when you're suddenly found driving a japanese sedan. Nothing wrong with either but it is just a matter of preference, feel and workability. There's no knock on the designers or builders either.

[cjbass]

OK, I will take one last crack at this... despite being advised otherwise.

I never had the holes that you spoke of. I guess I was the lucky one?

Every single one of our kilts has drill holes in it. You can't "not have them".

As for the sewing and fit of my UtiliKilt, it's exactly as I stated. It is a straight taper from waist to hem, and has no "bend" from the hip-line down.

This is totally incorrect, and any owner of a Utilikilt can prove you wrong by placing any straightedge along any pleat they choose. (Those of you with 48" and above waist sizes will only have less than 1/10th of an inch of taper on each pleat, so it may be very hard for you to see on anything but a brand new kilt.)

Follow these steps:
1. Lay the kilt flat on a table.
2. Select a pleat and pull it straight so that it lays flat.
3. Lay your straightedge along side of pleat, with the bottom of the straightedge along the hem.
4. You will notice that the pleat is dead straight from the hem to the booty line (where the pleat is sewed down to the pleat below it),
5. From that point it tapers away from the straightedge.

So. The pleat is dead straight from hem to booty line, then tapers in to the waistband.

Period. No questions.

And hey... if you doubt it, check out the Utilikilt patent!

There are no curved (versus tapered) pleats and underpleating in the manufacturing which would allow the straight hang. It was sewn in a triangular fashion from top to bottom...

Wrong. (Anybody who cares can see how wrong Jimmy is by simply following the steps I outlined above. I'll say no more on the subject.)

Alternately, open up your Utilikilt and lay it face down on the table. See the triangles of stitching that end at the waistband? That's the taper we are talking about, and that triangle shows the start and end point of the taper.

Therefore, the puckering/curling/grabbing

Ah. "Grabbing." Inventing more fantasy terminology to divert attention from a fallacious argument?


This is my last message on the subject of whether the UK's pleats taper or not. Anybody here that cares can prove to themselves that you are off in the weeds by simply following the steps I gave earlier, or looking at the patent.


As to whether UKs are "hand made" or not, I have already posted on that subject, and if you care to correct your misapprehensions about how we manufacture our kilts, I am sure you can find my message in the archives. It was only about two weeks ago. Better to be informed than to throw random unfounded allegations around.

=====
To Ron,
We are friends, so I will tell you straight that I do not know what the net effect on the hang of the kilt will be if you remove the stitching on the pleat returns. I can guess at it, but it would only be a guess. I do know Aumelina, though, and I know there is not a stitch in our kilts that does not need to be there to make it a Utilikilt.

Jimmy has consistently proven himself to be grossly uninformed about the most basic elements of our kilts, though, and has also proven himself to have little or no knowledge of actual garment construction techniques. Free advice is usually worth what you pay for it - mine included.

My mailbox is full of messages saying "ignore him", "he's a ****-stirrer", "he knows not of what he speaks", and people just basically telling me Don't Feed The Trolls.

Therefore I won't. I have corrected his most dangerous errors, and I will leave it at that.

I will ask that if you do make his suggested changes to one of your vast and shining collection of Utilikilts, that you at least follow through on providing pictures.

Thank you,
- CJ

[Riverkilt]

Thanks Jimmy....

Gonna give it a go...You and I may be the Lone Rangers on this one, but figure it can't hurt to give it a try....

Ron

[Riverkilt]

CJ, didn't see your post before my last...you must have squeaked in a milisecond before.

Lots to consider....

I like and respect both you guys...and your knowledge...don't know Jimmy to be a Troll...thought he had a semi custom UK for his insturments of music....?

Can see where drill holes would show in front. When I sit in my workman's (know they're not made for sitting) the front pleats open up on my legs, so can see a couple just past the leading edge of the pockets that would show drill holes very obviously.

Now wondering if I'm spending too much time counseling methamphetamine addicts so have picked up their urge to take things apart....:confused:

Falling back on "You can measure a thousand times, but only cut once."

CJ...if I do try it will for sure send photos. Don't suppose there's a rejeck UK around the factory you could experiment on.....? Okay, yeah, I know...

Still intrigued by the irony of this starting out a thread about sewing up an AK....Hell of a board gentlemen...what an adventure....a role model problem for a logic class....

Ron

[Jimmy Carbomb]

To tell you the honest truth Ron... I'm LOVING the responses! Good freakin' Lord this is fun!

I'm also having a great time viewing this with other kilt makers right now. It's a shame that I have to be their voice, but they're enjoying it. Best part is that they're certified and schooled YEARS more than I. All have examined the two Workman's that I have, and we'll leave it at that.;)

The respect that I have always had for the educated and trained kilt makers grows more and more every day!!! Those folks at Hector Russell, TFCK, and the likes are my heroes... even MORE now!

Signed,

Your neighborhood hungry troll.

[Jimmy Carbomb]

Thanks Jimmy....

Gonna give it a go...You and I may be the Lone Rangers on this one, but figure it can't hurt to give it a try....

Ron

As far as XMarks... you may be right. As far as UtiliKilt owners... we're not alone. It's not that we're complaining at all (as previously stated) just making a preference in feel and drape. I didn't think it was that difficult to understand.

I would rather have CJ keep enlightening, as it helps owners to see how they're constructed and produced. I'm trained through retired HR and BBH master kilt makers in the construction, processes and techniques. If my layman's terminology so that the site readers can follow along ain't good enough... sorry.

K-Crew... gee... who do you think THAT was guys? There's a thread on the site for this one that was started by Angus himself! Read it. Laugh. Enjoy. I think you'll get his "take" on this and the certain responses very clearly. Damn! He's ticked-off!!! I've never thought that I would see certified kilt makers get so up-in-arms over anything but an empty pint! ~It is posted under "Hacks".

[Riverkilt]

Main thing holding me up is wanting to see pics. Hope that's a possibility soon.

Thinking it all through my main fear remains the pesky drillholes.

I make my living sitting down, as a counselor (one of God's jokes on the world), I wear my UKs to work since sitting on the kilt all day wrinkles them up and I really like how the UK apron drops into place automatically so I don't have to be hyper-vigialant about modesty or wear a sporran while seated.

When I'm seated my front UK pleats fall open and two of the underpleat seams on each side are exposed. If there are needle or drill holes remaining they'd be super obvious to the client seated across from me.

As a lay guy I'm also enjoying the varying opinions of kiltmakers, comtemporary, traditional, and trained in both.

Willing to risk the improvement but would like to see an altered one in person or in pic, particularly the old front underpleats where they open up when seated.

Ron