Enough is Enough

[Bob C]

Nonsense. You set yourself up as the standard and challenged others to defend themselves for thinking differently.

I simply challenged your authority to do so.

[Freedomlover]

Nonsense. You set yourself up as the standard and challenged others to defend themselves for thinking differently.

I simply challenged your authority to do so.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Nothing wrong with that.

My question was:
"What I would like to know is why men who wish to be taken seriously permit that sort of behavior. Think about it."

That is a straightforward question, and that is all it is.

[davedove]

My question was:
"What I would like to know is why men who wish to be taken seriously permit that sort of behavior. Think about it."

That is a straightforward question, and that is all it is.

I think it's probably that this board is made up of a wide variety of people, each with different views. Some of us may not take ourselves that seriously. I don't, because as Confucious said: "The man who learns to laugh at himself will never cease to be amused."

Besides, I've found that many times when you let it be known that an action bothers you, people will continue the behavior just to annoy you. By laughing it off, you disarm them. Not always, of course, but many times this is true.

[Mike n NC]

I think it's probably that this board is made up of a wide variety of people, each with different views. Some of us may not take ourselves that seriously. I don't, because as Confucious said: "The man who learns to laugh at himself will never cease to be amused."

Yep, life is way too short to take it seriously. Besides...nobody gets out of it alive anyway.

If I have a question of how important something may be I generally just ask myself...."Self, how many people are really gonna care in a hundred years or so?"

Mike

[Freedomlover]

I think it's probably that this board is made up of a wide variety of people, each with different views. Some of us may not take ourselves that seriously. I don't, because as Confucious said: "The man who learns to laugh at himself will never cease to be amused."

Yep. Lot's of different views. That is one reason it so interesting.

Besides, I've found that many times when you let it be known that an action bothers you, people will continue the behavior just to annoy you. By laughing it off, you disarm them. Not always, of course, but many times this is true.

Very true. Thanks for reminding me.

[bear]

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Nothing wrong with that.

My question was:
"What I would like to know is why men who wish to be taken seriously permit that sort of behavior. Think about it."

That is a straightforward question, and that is all it is.

I find it hard to take seriously the assumption that a peek up a kilt is sexual harrassment. That is an illogical assessment of flirting with a bit of curiosity. Add to it the mystique that is purposely put on the kilt, the willingness of LOTS of guys to have their kilts checked, and you have zero chance of winning a case for harrassment.

And I'm not sure there's any correllation between being taken seriously and letting some lass sneak a peek at your bum. It's not about seriousness; it's about fun.

[Freedomlover]

I find it hard to take seriously the assumption that a peek up a kilt is sexual harrassment.

Maybe not in Canada.

That is an illogical assessment of flirting with a bit of curiosity. Add to it the mystique that is purposely put on the kilt, the willingness of LOTS of guys to have their kilts checked,...

Sure, lot's of guys don't mind, and I am not even close to suggesting that they should. All I wanted to know was the reasoning.

...and you have zero chance of winning a case for harrassment.

Again, perhaps not in Canada, but in this country it will most definitely float.

And I'm not sure there's any correllation between being taken seriously and letting some lass sneak a peek at your bum. It's not about seriousness; it's about fun.

Fun. Sure. Nothing like the good old double standard, eh?

[Raphael]

Double Standard is double edged sword and it also helps to define Men and Women. I have no problem in living in this double standard society.

[Archangel]

Double Standard is double edged sword and it also helps to define Men and Women. I have no problem in living in this double standard society.

"double standard" is usually the rhetoric of the power paradigm, it really means it's okay for me, it's not okay for you. It's the language of those trying to resist changes to the status quo. If something is wrong in one area, it is wrong in another. If it truly isn't, then something in the equation is different which would make it a different standard.

My disclaimer, this sounds heavier than I mean it to, see previous post. I'm just trying to get people to see the cliches that are being used: vocabulary reflects ideology.

[bear]

Men, (that's the gender with the outy bits), and women, (the gender with the inny bits), are different. To try and treat the two vastly different genders equally is silly.
It is entirely different for a woman to peek up a man's kilt than a man to peek up a woman's skirt.
First, men are on average bigger and stronger than women. We are able to put a stop to the peeking whenever we want, simply because of our larger physical nature.
Second, many men like kilt checks and there is a very well known and encouraged mystique about what's up the kilt that could be considered flirtatious. If all kilt wearing men stopped flirting and using the standard retorts and started wearing underwear, the kilt check idea might die in a generation. But don't hold your breath!
Double standards are a fact of life. Some work for us; some against us. All double standards are unfair as far as equality goes. The problem is, equality is a myth that will never be attained. In my opinion, equality for men and women would be a very bad thing. It is unnatural. We are of equal worth in society but we are not the same socially, mentally, or physically. Laws that try to force two genders to be treated as one are silly. Like most laws we pass these days, they are passed by people who have political agendas for one lobby group or another.
It isn't equality we need; it is fairness.
So, enough is not enough. Give me more! When some twenty-something woman wants to know the answer to the question, I will usually as, "How warm are your hands?" If she tries to peek, "I asked how warm your hands are, not how big your eyes are!"
"Hey! Pretend you're a lady and go up the back!"