Origins of the kilt, is it Celtic or not?

[Dreadbelly]

OH BLOODY HELL. For the love of Burns don't go nattering on about restrictions and what can and can not be worn in this thread too.

**Grabs shillelagh**

[Archangel]

OH BLOODY HELL. For the love of Burns don't go nattering on about restrictions and what can and can not be worn in this thread too.

**Grabs shillelagh**

hey, that's my swear words too, wifey gets so mad because daughter now uses it, one of the many bad father things I've learned to live with.

anyway, you've been doing great lately, really good. Breathe in, "grass is green." breathe out, "sky is blue", repeat until sartori.

(Turtle is still there, wonder what it's up to? I don't mean, like, tonight, right now, but why did it come into the yard and dig a small hole and lay in it?)

Need to be talking about kilts: somebody has an avatar with kilted turtle, don't they?

[Dreadbelly]

hey, that's my swear words too, wifey gets so mad because daughter now uses it, one of the many bad father things I've learned to live with.

anyway, you've been doing great lately, really good. Breathe in, "grass is green." breathe out, "sky is blue", repeat until sartori.

(Turtle is still there, wonder what it's up to? I don't mean, like, tonight, right now, but why did it come into the yard and dig a small hole and lay in it?)

Need to be talking about kilts: somebody has an avatar with kilted turtle, don't they?

You know, there is a great deal of wisdom to be had by learning from the humble turtle.

[Archangel]

You know, there is a great deal of wisdom to be had by learning from the humble turtle.

Mentioned earlier that many of my native friends are from the Turtle clan of the Ojibway people. We've had good discussions about the commonalities of martial culture, matriarchal lineage and clan structure. Lots of mutual respect.
Google "turtle clan" to see all the wisdom you correctly pointed to.

Goodnight.

[Dreadbelly]

Mentioned earlier that many of my native friends are from the Turtle clan of the Ojibway people. We've had good discussions about the commonalities of martial culture, matriarchal lineage and clan structure. Lots of mutual respect.
Google "turtle clan" to see all the wisdom you correctly pointed to.

Goodnight.

I am not sure exactly what you call it... But the animal sign I am associated with, I guess my totemic animal, crap, I don't know enough about this part of my culture, whatever it's called, it's a thunderbird. I believe I was born to be a Trickster, which is a special type of shaman. At least, some of my family seems to think so. (They also think this is why I wear women's clothing )

Anyhoo, back of subject, the Native Americans had a kilt like garmet. It's quite spiffy.

[Sir Robert]

Dred said: **Grabs shillelagh**

Why would anyone grab a missile designed to be launched from the cannon of a tank that was never built? I would rather have sabot as my battlecarry. (Very obscure referance to 1970s Army tank)

Gee guys you have no sense of humor.

[An t-Ileach]

Given that the (real) Scots were the Dal Riadans, who influenced the peoples east of the Druimn Albainn, and probably acquired things from them in return, and the Kingdom of Dal Riada originated in northern Ireland (possibly limited to the west by the Bann rivers) it would be unsurprising if the Scots did the same as the Irish. And as various writers (such as Cairney) suggest that the Erainnian Gaels might have had a Cruibhne origin too, it would be only natural if all these peoples dressed more or less the same. And given the sea-borne trade up and down the Celtic Sea, with intermarriages and population transfers, we shouldn't exclude the early Welsh from this.

So, it's quite likely that they all wore the leine and brat in some fashion: the leine was worn longer than it was in later times, namely to the ankle. It was probably girded with some device like a belt. I read somewhere (Ian Grimble?) that to ride one horse back, or to run when fighting, the leine was hitched up to the knee, or even above it. Could this have established a common style or wearing it, and securing the brat? It's very picturesque (Hollywood-style) to have a flowing cloak billowing out behind you, but I reckon it would be a bloody nuisance in a battle and I would expcet that most people would tie it around them so as not to snag in things - or give the enemy something to grab hold of.

[Archangel]

I am not sure exactly what you call it... But the animal sign I am associated with, I guess my totemic animal, crap, I don't know enough about this part of my culture, whatever it's called, it's a thunderbird. I believe I was born to be a Trickster, which is a special type of shaman. At least, some of my family seems to think so. (They also think this is why I wear women's clothing )

Anyhoo, back of subject, the Native Americans had a kilt like garmet. It's quite spiffy.

I can see Trickster, that seems to fit you. I don't think there was a real negative connotation, wear it well.

Most cultures had a kilt like garment. This is why this kind of post gets so repititious. First define "kilt", define "male skirt like garment"; research history of clothing; argue historical definitions, religious implications, people migrations, cultural borrowing, cultural memory; study history of manufacturing processes, dyes, weaving; separate modern fantasy from historical reality; research, build a library, visit one, use internal search features on the board; etc, etc, etc. Then within a week do it all over again.

but, learning is fun, tell me more about this Native American garment, please.

[James]

What a delightful thought-charging into the fray crying that fearsome battle cry of 'Wooden Shoe': would the sabot AT come when the shoe is removed?

James