Origins of the kilt, is it Celtic or not?

[Sir Robert]

Modern, I bought it on the internet. Origin 1980s punk movement.

1800s Kilts legalized and are all the rage in Victorian England. "Clan Tartans" invented.

1700s Kilts outlawed and forgotten. Bummer dude.

1700, The little kilt invented in Scotland by cutting the great kilt in half.

1500s the great kilt invented in Scotland by buckling a belt on the outside of a brat.

Prior to this in Ireland the nobles wore leinte and brats IE: linen tunics and wool wraps with edgeing in solids, stripes and MAYBE tartans. Belts worn over the leine but under the brat. Meanwhile the Scots are said to dress a lot like the Irish. Beyond this we are guessing.

Conclusion: While the kilt has ancient roots in Celtic brats, the kilt as we know it is Scottish only. So if the Irish want to wear ancient Celtic garb then they need to find a yellow nightshirt and wrap a striped blanket over it. As for the Welsh, ancient wood cuts clearly depict Tom Jones wearing tight pants and a loose shirt.

[Sir Robert]

Is anybody out there?

[davedove]

Conclusion: While the kilt has ancient roots in Celtic brats, the kilt as we know it is Scottish only. So if the Irish want to wear ancient Celtic garb then they need to find a yellow nightshirt and wrap a striped blanket over it. As for the Welsh, ancient wood cuts clearly depict Tom Jones wearing tight pants and a loose shirt.

True, the kilt as we know it has it roots in Scotland, but it's been adopted by other Celtic areas as a Celtic item. Plus, the kilt itself would have evolved from earlier clothing. If one is trying to recreate a historical outfit, then your other statements would apply, but for modern wear it's a lot more flexible.

If you're just going for historical accuracy, what you've said it pretty close to what I understand, but I'm certainly no expert. I hope you're not trying to apply restrictions as to what people wear, because you know how that will go over on this board.

[Archangel]

Albion's Seed Fischer
Pursuits of Happiness Greene
Scotland 101 Fallow
Scotland Lynch
The Lion in the North Prebble

Read, Learn, Discuss.

Library, Barnes and Noble, Amazon.

[Dreadbelly]

OH BLOODY HELL. For the love of Burns don't go nattering on about restrictions and what can and can not be worn in this thread too.

**Grabs shillelagh**

[Archangel]

OH BLOODY HELL. For the love of Burns don't go nattering on about restrictions and what can and can not be worn in this thread too.

**Grabs shillelagh**

hey, that's my swear words too, wifey gets so mad because daughter now uses it, one of the many bad father things I've learned to live with.

anyway, you've been doing great lately, really good. Breathe in, "grass is green." breathe out, "sky is blue", repeat until sartori.

(Turtle is still there, wonder what it's up to? I don't mean, like, tonight, right now, but why did it come into the yard and dig a small hole and lay in it?)

Need to be talking about kilts: somebody has an avatar with kilted turtle, don't they?

[Dreadbelly]

hey, that's my swear words too, wifey gets so mad because daughter now uses it, one of the many bad father things I've learned to live with.

anyway, you've been doing great lately, really good. Breathe in, "grass is green." breathe out, "sky is blue", repeat until sartori.

(Turtle is still there, wonder what it's up to? I don't mean, like, tonight, right now, but why did it come into the yard and dig a small hole and lay in it?)

Need to be talking about kilts: somebody has an avatar with kilted turtle, don't they?

You know, there is a great deal of wisdom to be had by learning from the humble turtle.

[Archangel]

You know, there is a great deal of wisdom to be had by learning from the humble turtle.

Mentioned earlier that many of my native friends are from the Turtle clan of the Ojibway people. We've had good discussions about the commonalities of martial culture, matriarchal lineage and clan structure. Lots of mutual respect.
Google "turtle clan" to see all the wisdom you correctly pointed to.

Goodnight.

[Dreadbelly]

Mentioned earlier that many of my native friends are from the Turtle clan of the Ojibway people. We've had good discussions about the commonalities of martial culture, matriarchal lineage and clan structure. Lots of mutual respect.
Google "turtle clan" to see all the wisdom you correctly pointed to.

Goodnight.

I am not sure exactly what you call it... But the animal sign I am associated with, I guess my totemic animal, crap, I don't know enough about this part of my culture, whatever it's called, it's a thunderbird. I believe I was born to be a Trickster, which is a special type of shaman. At least, some of my family seems to think so. (They also think this is why I wear women's clothing )

Anyhoo, back of subject, the Native Americans had a kilt like garmet. It's quite spiffy.

[Sir Robert]

Dred said: **Grabs shillelagh**

Why would anyone grab a missile designed to be launched from the cannon of a tank that was never built? I would rather have sabot as my battlecarry. (Very obscure referance to 1970s Army tank)

Gee guys you have no sense of humor.