Scottish names vs. English or Irish

[Kilts_Knave]

"Fitz" actually means "illegitimate son of."

http://www.question.com/dictionary/fitz.html

[Shay]

Also don't forget that folks Americanize their names_ Sean vs Shawn, Shevonne vs Siobhan, etc- IIRC, it was common practice to immigrant officers here to make up a name spelling when pressed for time or faced with someone they couldn't understand well.

[macwilkin]

"Fitz" actually means "illegitimate son of." A bastard son of a Norman king would gain the name "FitzRoy"....

Thank you Woodsheal, for reminding me of this! The neurons weren't all firing this morning! ;)

T.

[Andrew Breecher]

Possibly the Russians... perhaps not formally, as your last name is always your father's first name plus "ovitch" but as a nickname/friendly name.

Ah, thank you. I had heard of the Russian method, but had forgotten it.

The prefix "Fitz" is actually a Norman term for "son of" -- That is why you have many Irish surnames like Fitzgerald, Fitzpatrick, FitzWilliam, etc., because the Normans were "invited" to Ireland in 1169 and were soon assimilated into Irish society. The Anglo-Normans also moved to Scotland, and some of the most famous Scottish names -- Bruce, Hay, Grant, etc. are actually Norman in origin.

My family's Irish name Bennett is probably from the French Benoit.

Also don't forget that folks Americanize their names_ Sean vs Shawn, Shevonne vs Siobhan, etc- IIRC, it was common practice to immigrant officers here to make up a name spelling when pressed for time or faced with someone they couldn't understand well.

My forefather Johann Brücher, one of many German immigrants living in Wisconsin, enlisted in the Civil War. The enlisting officer couldn't figure out his German name, so he became John Breecher in official paperwork.

Andrew.

[Tiran]

I'm always fascinated by cultures that use the father's (or mother's) name in the next generation's name. Mac * in Gaelic-speaking lands, -son and -dóttir in Iceland, and so on. Unfortunately my father's name doesn't ring true with either of those systems (Andrew MacJerry (Andrew O'Raymond), or Andrew Jerryson). Are there any other systems like that still in use these days?

Andrew.

Seems to me I recall reading something recently about Iceland being one of the only if not the only place (at least in the devloped parts of the world) to continue this practice. I think it was in a travel magazine I was reading instead of listening to my prof's lecture. The odds are good I was wearing a kilt that day as well (just to help us stay relevant lol)

[MacSimoin]

"Fitz" actually means "illegitimate son of." A bastard son of a Norman king would gain the name "FitzRoy"....

The origins, meaning and usage of the prefix Fitz sparks debate even to this day. However, though no offense is intended, I feel the post quoted above is a presumptive and generalized statement. Allow me to clarify this: Regarding my own lengthy research into the etymology of the surnames of and place names in Ireland, I've come to find the earliest known use of Fitz (as part of a compound surname) was in the Roy (Roi, from France) family of England; they produced an illegitimate heir to the crown who eventually became known as Fils de Roi (Anglicized as Fitz Roy). The use of the French word fils (meaning son and not son of) in England was sometimes used afterwards to describe a "bastard son" (though this was not always the case).

The definition found in this posted link is a little closer to the truth:

http://www.question.com/dictionary/fitz.html

For those in Ireland (after the Norman invasions), “Fitz” is historically recognized as simply meaning “son of” (properly, illegitimacy is never inferred with any Irish patronym). The linguisitic inference of 'mc' in Ireland (to denote son of) can be traced back in Ireland to before the time of Christ (re, the Annals of Ireland, Annals of Ulster, Annals of Connacht and Annals of Loch Ce) though it was not used or attached as a prefix in any Irish patronym until after 1000 AD (surname use began here around this time).

[MacSimoin]

"Fitz" actually means "illegitimate son of." A bastard son of a Norman king would gain the name "FitzRoy"....

The origins, meaning and usage of the prefix Fitz sparks debate even to this day. However, though no offense is intended, I feel the post quoted above is a presumptive and generalized statement. Allow me to clarify this: Regarding my own lengthy research into the etymology of the surnames of and place names in Ireland, I've come to find the earliest known use of Fitz (as part of a compound surname) was in the Roy (Roi, from France) family of England; they produced an illegitimate heir to the crown who eventually became known as Fils de Roi (Anglicized as Fitz Roy). The use of the French word fils (meaning son and not son of) in England was sometimes used afterwards to describe a "bastard son" (though this was not always the case).

The definition found in this posted link is a little closer to the truth:

http://www.question.com/dictionary/fitz.html

For those in Ireland (after the Norman invasions), “Fitz” is historically recognized as simply meaning “son of” (properly, illegitimacy is never inferred with any Norman-Irish patronym). The linguisitic inference of 'mc' in Ireland (to denote son of) can be traced back in Ireland to before the time of Christ (re, the Annals of Ireland, Annals of Ulster, Annals of Connacht and Annals of Loch Ce) though it was not used or attached as a prefix in any Irish patronym until after 1000 AD (surname use began here around this time).

***ADMIN/MODERATORS: Sorry about the double post! Please delete the second one. Thank you.***

[Niblox]

In Ireland, the female version of Mac or Mc is "Ni" or "Nic" - daughter of - hence Ni Sullabhain (female version of O'Sullabhain or O'Sullivan).

[Niblox]

In Ireland, the female version of Mac or Mc is "Ni" or "Nic" - daughter of - hence Ni Sullabhain (female version of O'Sullabhain or O'Sullivan).

A woman in Ireland who choses to use the Irish form of her name might have Ni or Nic in front of her name, while her husband would be O or Mac/Mc.

I am sure the same happens in some parts of Scotland where they speak Scots Gallic

Niblox