"On Topic" Obsession, and overly stringent rules

[Doc Hudson]

Terry,

No way in the world do I want to encourage or participate in any sort of religious arguement. As you say, no one changes their minds. But how is an Off Topic thread, that has nothing to do with any specific religion, yet manages to briefly menition not only Christianity, but Native American, and Asian beliefs, without the slightest arguement I might add, be arguementative.

Let me give you another example.

Earlier this evening, a good friend and I were having a discussion via Yahoo Instant Messenger. In the course of the conversation, we discussed politics, on which we had both agreement and spirited disagreement, social structure, where again we had spirited disagreement, religion, foreign policy, and world history. All in the course of half an hour of so. Neither of us got mad. Neither of us threatened to remove the other from our contact list. It was just a matter of two adults pleasantly discussing and debating the world's problems.

My point is that not all comments on religion or politics are arguement. Frankly I'm surprised that Todd's request for prayers for the folks in the way of Hurricane Katrina didn't get zapped. Can't get much more religious than asking for prayer.

If you don't like a topic, exercise your right to ignore it, as you did with Dr. Douglas's dream thread. There are many threads I don't read fully, and some folks whose posts I don't read at all. But as long as discussion remains civil, don't trash the whole thing!

My point is that it seems to me that some one is getting a little zap happy. And like I said, we kilted gents don't much appreciate folks telling us what we can and can't do. Now deny that with a straight face and I won't play poker with you!

[bear]

My point is that not all comments on religion or politics are arguement. Frankly I'm surprised that Todd's request for prayers for the folks in the way of Hurricane Katrina didn't get zapped. Can't get much more religious than asking for prayer.

People thank God for stuff all the time on this forum. And they say they're praying for this or that just as often. It doesn't lead to discussion or arguments. (And the comments are not stricken from the forum.)

If you don't like a topic, exercise your right to ignore it, as you did with Dr. Douglas's dream thread. There are many threads I don't read fully, and some folks whose posts I don't read at all. But as long as discussion remains civil, don't trash the whole thing!

The problem with allowing just a little bit of religion on a forum such as this, is it becomes a foothold for fundamentalists and they begin trying to convert people or telling people how to live. It happened on Tom's Cafe and almost killed the site.
Ignoring a religious thread is not the same as not having religious threads. There are lots of forums, even kilt forums, that allow or encourage religious discussion. This is not one of them. That's just the way it is.

My point is that it seems to me that some one is getting a little zap happy. And like I said, we kilted gents don't much appreciate folks telling us what we can and can't do. Now deny that with a straight face and I won't play poker with you!

We have a few new moderators. There will be an adjustment time for the members and the new mods. I counsel patience for all involved.
I have recently had a long and trying kilt related thread closed by one of the newer mods. I'm not sure if it's a good thing or not that the thread is closed. There's nothing I can do about it either way. I can shrug it off and live with it.
Nobody likes being told what we can and can't do. Religious threads are not allowed on this forum at all and never have been. We knew the rules before we signed up. Trying to change them now that we're members doesn't seem proper.

[Freelander Sporrano]

As the newbie moderator on Xmarks I find one of the most difficult jobs to do is to decide when people have oversteped the line. Let me explain a little. With living in Scandinavia you develop a more relaxed attitude and become more tollerant to a lot of things that upset others.I react differntly than Americans do in some situations. I also find it difficult to "tune in" many of the words and things talked about in the off topic page I haven't a clue what people are on about therefor I leave that to others

As for Prayers being asked for I don't find that offensive just Human.I don't mind God being mentioned as long as it doesn't get all bent out of shape. As for politics I'm not qualified to even go there.

In the end the forum has a set of rules.
....and Hank has the final word

[Archangel]

I'd like to add another two points. It can be argued that all discussions revolve around the supposed "no-no's": sex, politics, and religion. That it would be better for society if we could learn to talk about those concepts without conflct and not stay in ignorance, prejudice and bigotry about them. Part of that would be knowing the time and the place. This is not the place for it because of the rules. However, because of the ubiquity of these, we're going to crashing into those limitations frequently and the limitations need to be clearer. My intention is to respect them.

The thread in question discussed the subject from a Celtic religious perspective. That would be the Scottish connection. So, a question I see, is how to discuss common Celtic symbols we wear without Kells, Lindesfarne and Iona. Another area is where the person in Germany has employer issues that are tied to religion. If we have to be silent about that, we can't advice, which is one of the primary functions of this forum. (Would also note that a lot of the members amicibly brought up a lot of religious thoughts in non-controversial ways.) Again, this is not me challenging the rules of house. My goal is to respect the rules.

There's a phrase I've run into and read here that says "rules are meant to be broken". I don't agree with that, it's the policies of those rules that are meant to be broken because policies can't fit every situation but they can define most.

[Bob C]

Why is it that some people think rules do not apply to them?

Hooray for the moderator who enforced the rule that some chose to ignore!

[Prester John]

It's a funny thing about rules...

If you don't like them, either change them or go elsewhere and start your own, but if you have them, then one should follow them.

Rules are not laws to be sure. Even the word "rule" come from ruler, something to measure by, but rules are not made to be broken. They are guidelines to measure by.


Hank, keep up the good work.

[highlandtide]

This is a forum about Kilts. Period. I dont even like having an Off-Topic section and most of you have known that from day one. If you want to discuss politics and religion there are plenty of other places. We have rules here for a reason. I think it is funny when people say things like, "Well those rules are gonna drive people away..." Or comments like "if you want more people to come here..."

We have the most active kilt forum anywhere and people come here b/c they appreciate a well run community.

Sorry but the rules are not going to change. I do appreciate the candor however.

PS- I deleted that thread. Not because of what it said but for two reasons. The potential of it and the fact that I state clearly in the rules of that specific forum "I will remove any thread that I see takes anything away from this forum." That one did.

[highlander_Daz]

toruble is with religion and politics is that people dont always respect the other persons point of view, and the thread can then get disrespectful and "kick off", I hate censorship but if people cant make a point without resorting to insults then I believe its correct to remove/ censor the thread.

The other thing I dont like is when people form opinions without being in full possesion of the facts, topics such as sectarianism in Scotland and the situation in Ireland support for the IRA etc spring to mind.

[highlander_Daz]

However I might add that debate using acid wit/ facts/ and devestating logic are very Scottish traits, anyone who saw John Smith or Robin Cook in action or indeed George Galloway (even if you dont agree with his policys) would see that. so perhaps its correct that lively debate is encouraged but I think there is a boundery over which one must not cross, personall attacks and other such are a bit naughty, I like to think I can hold my own in a debate but I would always have a drink with my nemesis afterwords and agree to disagree.

If we all agreed, we would all be driving the same colour make and model of car, married to the same type of women and wearing the same Tartan, what a boring world it would be.

[Jimmy Carbomb]

The thread in question discussed the subject from a Celtic religious perspective. That would be the Scottish connection. So, a question I see, is how to discuss common Celtic symbols we wear without Kells, Lindesfarne and Iona.

Celtic symbols are often based around their religious backing. THIS IS, however, a kilt site and as I understand the rules, that's the very point of the deletion. Yes, the two can be closely linked... but they're really not. Picky point, for sure, but one set in stone.

The kilt tartans are family and regional for the most part... not who's a certain Celtic sect.

It's just one small point that the moderators know ahead of time and have managed to handle rather well.

IF you would like to discuss the Celtic traditons, language and heritage, you can head to the www.celticradio.net forums and go to town! It's a FANTASTIC forum with some rather well-informed members... many of whom are also here. I love the place for "general" talk, but head to XMarks for the kilt stuff. The two forums are a wonderful mix of kilts and culture.