Devil's Advocate!

[James]

In another thread I was accused of playing devil's advocate!

Fair enough I've been called much worse.

Rather it is because I'm approaching things from a rather different perspective-not of necessity the right perspective-but mine.

First I'm here because I do think that the adoption by men of the kilt is a sensible move, offering a variety of benefits.

However as I'm now nearly seventy and have been wearing the kilt since childhood-and further having been brought up to think of myself as wearing the kilt as a clansman: I will not of necessity see things through the same eyes as someone who for their own entirely laudable reasons has come to the kilt in later life.

Thus it never occurs to me that going to the shops-a social event - coffee or whatever is some sort of adventure: if I feel like wearing the kilt that day I will.

However I will read on this board stuff be it from experts or laypeople alike: which can cut across what I've been taught since infancy or have heard said by fellow clansfolk-or what I know are the attitudes of highland kiltwearers.

It is the same with the military-my own experience at times cuts across what is being said on this board.

Now I can either behave and keep quiet, or offer what at times will be a contrary view. Here I do think it important to offer that contrary view: not to be offensive or recruit myself to some sort of tartan vigilante organisation. Rather to show that there a variety of views, and that on occasion those views will differ from the received wisdom of some contributors to this board.

The aim being to contribute to a positive debate-rather than abstain from a partial debate.

James

[Kilts_Knave]

My pipemajor is from Scotland. He is about 50-ish, I suppose, and he has the exact opposite view from yours.

While talking about kilts and wearing them, I mentioned I had a kilt I wear to church on occassion. He said something to the effect of, "Well, kilt-wearing is rather like you wearing jeans, I grew up in them. And I wear jeans now." He said the whole thing should be taken toungue-in-cheek and that no Scotsmen ever take this sort of thing seriously! Certainly this Scottish person is unaware of any clans-ish attitude.

In fact, he spoke of when he was accosted by a drunkard in Key West, where the band was playing in the parade. During the performance (this was at Fantasy Fest and, if you are familiar with it, you will understand), a young man came and got into his face (while he is blowing reedcap in mouth, mind you) screaming that he is disrespecting the uniform, and how dare he, and so on and so forth.

[It takes all kinds (especially in Key West), but the unmitigated gall!]

I told him perhaps it was the Mackenzie tartan (which the band wears) at which the young man objected. I told him I had learned some American Mackenzies get pretty picky about who wears their tartan. He just shrugged and said, "Maybe; we got our [uniforms] cheap," and we continued on with our lesson.

[Archangel]

Well, James, thanks for the bio. I was wondering about your military experience and I'm glad you're so devoted to your heritage. You do sound a bit, as you put it the other day, colonial but I'm sure that will all unfold.
My Edinburgh, Kirkaldy, birth and upbringing was more in line with kilt_nave's experience, military and all, but, hey, there you go.

[Burnout]

In another thread I was accused of playing devil's advocate!
Fair enough I've been called much worse.... etc. James

When I read the remark, I thought it was intended as a compliment. I've been known to stir a pot or two myself in my life. Just Play whatever role you play best.

[davedove]

In another thread I was accused of playing devil's advocate!

Fair enough I've been called much worse.

Rather it is because I'm approaching things from a rather different perspective-not of necessity the right perspective-but mine.

It's always good to have a "Devil's advocate" James. As long as you are contributing and are not simply arguing I welcome your contribution. I think this board needs opinions from ALL of the kilt wearing populace so that we can become better educated.

[Doc Hudson]

James wrote:

Now I can either behave and keep quiet

Now wouldn't that be a crashing bore!!!!!!!!!

James also wrote:

offer what at times will be a contrary view

James,

I'm of the opinion that conversation without a bit of disagreement is as entertaining as rice soup with no salt or spices. Besides, if you retire as Devil's Advocate, I'll have to take on the job and I just have too many things going on to take yet another job!

[Dreadbelly]

James wrote:


Now wouldn't that be a crashing bore!!!!!!!!!

James also wrote:


James,

I'm of the opinion that conversation without a bit of disagreement is as entertaining as rice soup with no salt or spices. Besides, if you retire as Devil's Advocate, I'll have to take on the job and I just have too many things going on to take yet another job!

I am not sure if I am the Devil's advocate, but there have been many times where I have been accused of being the Devil himself.

[bubba]

James, please do continue expressing your viewpoint and playing devils advocate. It's good for us the read other opinions than our own.

[Macman]

James, I also thought the comment about you playing the devil's advocate was intended as a compliment. I have enjoyed reading your views, whether contrary or not !

Archangel, my mother's dad was born in Leith and lived in Kirkaldy before moving to Canada. His surname was Oliphant - now there's a nice tartan!

[An t-Ileach]

A Sheumais,

Well, Devil's Advocate, If you're referring to the "Bravura" thread, I must say that I agreed with you. I was going to post something supportive, but I got side-tracked.

The clansmen were warrior farmers or warrior fishermen, and "nice" and "not nice" depending on who they were dealing with; but they were in any case hard men (and women) coming from a hard environment - especially after the progressive destruction of their economy from the 16th Century onwards. The film "Rob Roy" gave a fair insight into the life.

An historian friend of mine, James Dickie, tells that the British learned how to "deal" with tribal peoples by fighting the clansmen of Scotland. You drew a parallel with the Frontier - it's hardly surprising therefore that the Highlanders serving in India (even in the "civil") identified more with the hillmen than the plainsmen - Pathans, Baluchis, Gurkhas, etc.

I think that it is essential to look back to where we came from - and the source of the kilts and their furniture - in order to draw inspriation for our modern expressions of them. As the saying goes cuimhnich air na daoine a dh'thainig thu ("remember the men from whom you came").

It's great that the kilt is being adopted as effectively the national dress of Scotland - even if very unhistorically in many cases - and that more and more people are wearing it (even the filleadh mor) in everyday life, even down south among the Sassanachs.

So, if you feal that you've become the Forums "Devil's Advocate" I can say that you'll not be lacking supporters.