Nazareth Mudmen

[Archangel]

What a shame. Death threats?

I take those quite seriously. Last person that did that, well, I shouldn't say what happened here.

Keep your kids safe man. No time to play "nice guy" with kids around. Play for keeps.

Dad would have called it playing for "realsies". That's why I intend to check the place out by talking to the staff. It's a bit higher class than I usually go to, places where I've never had trouble. This place was a good party, and better after the disruption. (Blu, this place seems better than Call the Office, way above the Embassy, way below the Aeolian.)

What I did, I wouldn't have instructed students to do. However, I felt that I was maintaining control for nearly all of it. You'll be correct in pointing out that the little bit I wasn't was the dangerous bit.

My kids are in their twenties. Both have long training in Shorinji ryu. My son is an incredible fighter (dad's opinion as well as the trainers of past world and NA champions) with an even greater skill in peace-making. His response to most threats, "No, you don't want to fight me, you really want a cup of tea with me." I've heard from several witnesses of him doing this and them having tea with him. He's like Gretzky in a fight, he can't believe people are moving so slow. His last tournament the opponent was laying stunned on the ground and none of the four judges, nor the head, could figure out what happened. He is the same outside the ring, except for the tea thing which seems to work, weird. My daughter will scratch your eyes out, honey.

All this to say I'd really like to see the Mudmen and want to make sure that this was a random thing not likely to be repeated. I won't be front row at that concert. My impression is that Murphy fans would understand why.

[Dreadbelly]

Dad would have called it playing for "realsies". That's why I intend to check the place out by talking to the staff. It's a bit higher class than I usually go to, places where I've never had trouble. This place was a good party, and better after the disruption. (Blu, this place seems better than Call the Office, way above the Embassy, way below the Aeolian.)

What I did, I wouldn't have instructed students to do. However, I felt that I was maintaining control for nearly all of it. You'll be correct in pointing out that the little bit I wasn't was the dangerous bit.

My kids are in their twenties. Both have long training in Shorinji ryu. My son is an incredible fighter (dad's opinion as well as the trainers of past world and NA champions) with an even greater skill in peace-making. His response to most threats, "No, you don't want to fight me, you really want a cup of tea with me." I've heard from several witnesses of him doing this and them having tea with him. He's like Gretzky in a fight, he can't believe people are moving so slow. His last tournament the opponent was laying stunned on the ground and none of the four judges, nor the head, could figure out what happened. He is the same outside the ring, except for the tea thing which seems to work, weird. My daughter will scratch your eyes out, honey.

All this to say I'd really like to see the Mudmen and want to make sure that this was a random thing not likely to be repeated. I won't be front row at that concert. My impression is that Murphy fans would understand why.

You said kids and I thought "kids." As in wee ones. Doh!

All my hackles stood up and I felt the blood sing a little when I thought about it.

There are entirely to many names for fighting styles. I have no idea what the one you listed is. I don't even know what my fighting style would be called. If people want to hit me, I let them. Kick me in the head a few times, crack a pool cue over the back of my skull, smash a bottle on my face, hit me upside the head with a bat. I don't care. Sooner or later, my attacker, those strong and capable enough to go toe to toe with me, will get tired and I will rip them apart. Rabbit punches in my poor abused kidneys just makes me crankier. I am like a big damage sponge. Which is why my body is in such bad shape now.

Serving tea would make the world a better place. I like that idea. I have learned an important lesson here tonight.

[Kilted Stuart]

It's a shame that there are people that cannot go out in public for an evening without causing trouble. If they can't contain themselves than why don't they just stay home and let the rest of us enjoy the evening.

You did they right thing Archangel. You could have lost control on this guy but he isn't worth it. You got your point across just fine. I have a background in martial arts too and find it's more damaging to this guy to do what you did than to lower yourself to his level. He is lucky he grabbed you. One day he will mess with the wrong person and he'll get his. We can't let people like him ruin your fun.

They say it takes all types. His type we all can do without. If they can't have fun for one evening without starting something, stay home so the rest of us can enjoy ourselves.

Kilted Stuart

[Dreadbelly]

It's a shame that there are people that cannot go out in public for an evening without causing trouble. If they can't contain themselves than why don't they just stay home and let the rest of us enjoy the evening.

You did they right thing Archangel. You could have lost control on this guy but he isn't worth it. You got your point across just fine. I have a background in martial arts too and find it's more damaging to this guy to do what you did than to lower yourself to his level. He is lucky he grabbed you. One day he will mess with the wrong person and he'll get his. We can't let people like him ruin your fun.

They say it takes all types. His type we all can do without. If they can't have fun for one evening without starting something, stay home so the rest of us can enjoy ourselves.

Kilted Stuart

Fate has decreed that I, and people like me, are around when those people have that day.

Seriously though. All this has me thinking. Earlier, I was reading, a gentle answer turns away wrath. I have read it many times. Reading this post tonight made something in my brain go "click."

I think I am about to either have an epiphany, or that stir fried pineapple rice is tearing me up.

[Jewddha]

I recall once, reading an old (and many times changed and re-told story), this particular story took place on a japanese subway (if I recall correctly), and the particular car in question contained a small number of people, ladies and children mostly, a large drunk man (a factory worker) and a martial arts student (fairly advanced, though I don't recall the particular school) and an old wizened man. The large man had become rowdy under the influence of his drink and was posing a threat to the women and children in the car. Now the young man was practically itching to show the drunkard what for, but before he could do anything the old man stepped directly into the drunkards path, who in no uncertain terms told him to mind his own. The younger man thought the old man crazy for putting his safety at risk when he could have felled the man quickly and easily, but the old man carried on and spoke to the drunkard:
"what are you drinking there? ah, sake I see. I remember when my wife and I used to have a glass in the evenings" the drunk said "what do i care?" to which the old man replied "I was just curious, you seem to be a labourer, do you have a wife or a family?" the drunk opened up a bit at this: "I do, but I got laid off from the factory,a nd now I can't support them" the old man persisted with the conversation "and is that why you are drinking, because of being out of work?" In a short period of time, the old man had the drunk sitting with him, talking quietly together, entirely calm. The younger man had watched the whole happenings in a state of confusion, but by the end he saw that the old man had succeeded in eliminating the threat in a much more effective matter, that night he had much to think about...

As Dreadbelly put, "a gentle answer turns away wrath" it s soemthing that has been proven true time and again.

[davedove]

Earlier, I was reading, a gentle answer turns away wrath.

Or, in the words of Dalton from Roadhouse, "Be Nice."

[Archangel]

Jewddha's story has a very important point in it and it is step two of my philosophy to fighting.

The first I call Miyagi's Rule: be somewhere else.

The second is the Two Argument Rule: argument one is the issue, argument two is "who is the better fighter?". Quickly figure out which one has to be responded to.

The third rule is: always leave a face saving way out.

They've worked for me for most of my life. My son has them down pretty well, my daughter rarely allows the last one.

The last post is good because it reminds us that the most important martial art is the art of courtesy.

Notes to posts of Mudmen music: their cds have been playing in my car for two weeks now. I'm still enjoying them.

[Dreadbelly]

Arch, if you don't mind me asking... Because I always wanted to know from an actual martial arts instructor. It's complicated.

Way back when I was 19 years old, I worked nights as a bouncer in a bar. I loved fighting at the time. I figured it was a great way to make money. So anyhow, one night, there was this one guy in there and he was just raising a ruckus, harassing the waitresses, and generally just being a pain. So I was told to make him go home.

When I told him to leave and he refused, he warned me that he was a black belt in karate to such and such a degree and he had mysical kung fu powers. And he was in there to celebrate winning some sort of compitition. And he said "Go away little boy" which really annoyed me, as nothing gets me as irritated as poking fun at my hight. And I figure that he is joking about having mystical kung fu powers. I met a lot of drunks that thought they had mystical kung fu powers.

So, I go to haul him out.

I can't lie. He kicked the crap out of me. I mean, he actually kicked the crap out of me. He's faster than any other human being than I had ever seen. His feet are all over the place. He's kicking me in the chest before I even had a chance to get in to a good defensive posture, and then he starts working my face over with his feet. He's actually tap dancing on my face. He broke my nose and fractured my jaw. He's slapping me around with his feet and he actually made me hurt... Which made me cross the line between rage and insanity. In between the flurry of blows, I notice he has a flustered look on his face. (In between flashes of cowboy boot heels smashing in to my face) Once I crossed that line, I know he's hurting me still on some level, but I don't feel anything. So I go about trying to maul him. His legs must have got tired because he started punching me. I am still trying to desperately get a hold on him. Later, when I reflected on the fight, I realise, he must have looked worried or flustered because I did not go down or fall over when he was beating the stuffing out of me. I think it unnerved him. Anyhoo, I finally managed to get a grip on him. Grabbed by his wrist. He's back to kicking me upside the head again, this time with his knee somehow, because we are so close. At this point, my head feels like it's about 20 feet above my shoulders, and I was starting to wonder how many more blows I could take. So I had to end it right then and there. I had one hand around his wrist already, so I get the other around his elbow. And I snapped his forearm down over my knee like I was snapping kindling. The moment his arm snapped in to two pieces, all of the fight left him and he's on the ground howling. The police arrive a little while later. I had to go to the hospital. Hairline fracture in my jaw in several places, fractured spot under my eye socket, broken nose, several broken ribs, a broken collarbone, a cracked sternum, I was busted up real bad. He had a wonderful compound fracture in his arm.

So my question is... As an instructor, how would you instruct your students to deal with a combatant like my self? Say, in a forced combat situation? How do you bring a monster down? What do you do in a situation like that?

I ask because I am curious. He became quite unnerved when his training seemed to fail him. Whatever level of degree he was as a black belt did not seem to offer much combat experience with a foe that survived the first flurry of blows. You could see it in his face and how he fought. After the first few measured well placed blows, everything else was desperation. Panic. He started getting tired and couldn't hit as hard, or as often.

The fight really stands out in my mind because I learned so much from it, but the views of the other side remain foggy and I hope you can shed some light on it, or some insight on how you would train your students to deal with it, or how you would deal with it your self.

Many thanks in advance. This is important, as your answers may very well fill in the blanks in an empty spot in my combat philosophy.

[Kilted Stuart]

I wouldn't want to mess with my Sensei either but he would be the last person to assert himself in that way. Some people learn the art without learning self control. You also learn to avoid than to be agressive. Some people can't do that no matter how there trained. It is a shame that people trained need to assert themselves to prove there skill to anyone who'll watch. What I learn is left at the dojo, competition or demo. If I need to defend myself, I can. If I was ever the aggressor and my Sensei found out, I would loose the privledge of learning from him.

The real art is in avoidance and if that doen't work, use as little force as possible to get out of the situation or to defend yourself. Archangel used as little force as nessary to diffuse the situation. If he didn't he would have been outside of the place like the other guy. If you turn on the guy and beat him to a pulp your now no better a person than him.

[Dreadbelly]

I am in the process now of recompiling all my views, thoughts, and philosophies on violence.

Been thinking about it a great deal.

If my views change, I am unsure if I will be able to change with them. There are entirely to many people dumb enough to try and take a piece of me for me to even try to become a pacifist.

A lot of thinking to do have I.