Boy Scout kilts

[tomcherv]

Actually, my first "non-costume" event for wearing a kilt will be my cub scout meeting. As the cubmaster, I have taken to wearing something especially appropriate to our monthly theme: i.e. Cub Scout Roundup - I will be wearing my jeans, cowboy boots, and cowboy hat.

Our November theme is "Our Family Tree", so even though I'm not Scottish, I'm planning to wear a kilt. 1) because it's fun, and 2) it's easily recognizable as a family heritage type item. It will be interesting to see the various reactions. (They shouldn't be too surprised, since they're used to me wearing something unusual. I wore my tuxedo for the 75th Birthday of Scouting event, and made a replica of a race car driver's suit for Pinewood Derby.)

I have a traditional 8 yd, pleated to the stripe, Black Stewart that I made about 11 years ago. Never quite finished it, and now that I've lost weight, I'm taking it in about 6 inches. My other kilt is a great kilt - it's a tartan weave, but I have not been able to identify the tartan.

[Alan H]

The Boy Scout manual for the UK lists alternative uniform items for UK scouts. For example, in Northern Ireland, the saffron kilt is an officialy recognized alternative to trousers.

http://histclo.hispeed.com/youth/you...o/scoutsco.htm

and

http://histclo.hispeed.com/youth/you...ir/scoutir.htm

...wherein you will find this bit of text:

***Some Irish Boy Scouts wear dark green or yellow saffron kilts for special outings like camping or in dancing comprtitions and of course Jamborees. ****

Finally, let's get to the meat of it.

http://www.netpages.free-online.co.uk/bbs/bbsbgs.htm

you will find this section.....

*********

11. KILTS.
11.1 Other than Ladies, Pre-Juniors, and Juniors (including Wolf Cubs) the following may wear the kilt with a plain leather sporran;
(a) Any Scout Officer holding any rank in the movement in Scotland, or Ireland.
(b) Any Scout Officer of Scottish or Irish descent (at least one Grand Parent of Scottish, or Irish Blood).
(c) Members of any Troop/Group in Scotland or Ireland, provided all wear the Kilt.
(d) Members of any Troop/Group where all the members are of Scottish or Irish descent (at least one Grand Parent of Scottish, or Irish Blood) and provided all wear the Kilt.
11.2 Those entitled to wear the Kilt may also wear, as an alternative headgear, a Khaki Bonnet. Similarly Rover Scouts may wear a navy blue balmoral.

***********

I'm sure that James and others could tell us about Boy Scout groups who have worn the kilt, and probably have memories of doing so themselves, when they were lads.

[Sherry]

We have a local Venture crew that wears kilts. This is a link to their gallery:
http://crew1298.org/modules.php?name=gallery

Sherry

[kenNYG]

Thanks to everyone I now have lots of good information. Thank you Ham and Alan for your information. I have had some resisdence from my peers about letting my crew wear a kilt but now I can tell them that the high and almighty Lord Baden-Powle him self had a kilt. The American Boy Scout Museum is about 45 minutes from my home and I will have to go back and look alot closer at the displays.

I like the web page from Texas about the kilted crew. I'll have to start our own web page.

The other adults I belive are 1) insecure or 2) jelious..

As a scout I earnd the rank of Eagle Scout, all my Religous award. As an adult I have been awareded by the Catholic Bishop of Rockford the Catacist of the year, the scouters Silver Acorn, District award of Merit, a adult leader for the Girl Scouts and others. Been a scoccer couch for T ball, 14 season of soccer coach ( some season undefeated), and am on my nineth year of teach Relgious Ed. for 2nd graders, and so on, and yes I am braging. My point is I like the way I grew up and I am trying to help the youth here have fun too. If they want to be kilted it's my job to full fill that dream. That is what adults are here for. And yes we as adults can have fun with them too.

Being kilted is fun, 1) I like when the boys get called over by the other boys wanting to know were they can buy a kilt. 2) I like when the boys tell me that I'm cool and want to join our crew becouse we are one of kind.

Most of all I like the attention I get at the hardware store, grocery store,
.and just walking out and about with the dog or the wife, not both at the same time. The dog is to old to go far. I am not starved for attention but it's nice to get. Ken

[O'Callaghan]

I've never posted here before, but none of the links that Alan H posted actually go to the Scouting Association or to the current version of the SA rules. The correct link is

http://www.scoutbase.org.uk/library/...2006/10_17.htm

and the current rule is

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Rule 10.18: The Kilt and Pleated Tartan Skirts

1.

Kilts and pleated tartan skirts may be worn as part of the appropriate uniform, subject to the following colour:
*

in Scotland, male Members who are entitled to wear uniform may wear the tartan kilt of any tartan;
*

elsewhere, male Members who are entitled by descent to wear tartan may wear the kilt;
*

in Scotland, female Members who are entitled to wear uniform may wear a pleated tartan skirt of any tartan;
*

elsewhere, female Members who are entitled to wear tartan may wear a pleated tartan skirt;
*

outside Scotland, where Members are entitled to wear tartan, male holders of appointments may wear the kilt of their own or Scout tartan and female holders of appointments may wear a pleated tartan skirt of their own or Scout tartan;
*

in Northern Ireland, male Members who are entitled to wear uniform may wear the saffron kilt;
*

elsewhere, male Members who are entitled by descent to do so may wear the saffron kilt;
*

in Northern Ireland, female Members who are entitled to wear uniform may wear a saffron pleated skirt;
*

Elsewhere, female Members who are entitled by descent to wear saffron may wear a saffron pleated skirt;
*

Outside Northern Ireland, where Members are entitled to wear saffron, male holders of appointments may wear a saffron kilt and female holders of appointments may wear a pleated saffron skirt.

2.

The following items are correct wear with the tartan kilt: plain leather sporran, plain lovat green knee length socks and green garter tabs, black shoes, outer jacket tailored for wear with the kilt (optional).

3.

The following items are correct wear with the saffron kilt: plain leather sporran, plain knee length socks of a traditional colour (eg, green, fawn or white), black or brown shoes, outer jacket tailored for wear with the kilt (optional).

4.

Where a Section is wearing saffron, the sock and shoe colours must be the same for the whole Section. This decision is to be taken by the Section Leader after consensus has been sought.

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Note that the Republic of Ireland is an entirely separate country from the UK, and so not covered by SA rule 10.18. The Scouting Ireland website is

http://www.scouts.ie/

However, I can't find any uniform rules there, but I have heard that each area has to choose either green or saffron kilts, although whether that means each province or each county I have no idea. The person who posted this info on a scouting group was an American who used the word council, but they don't have councils there. I think a province would be more similar in size to a council in the US, but who knows.

To further complicate matters, Scouting Ireland also operates in the North, i.e. on the British side of the border, with its own units set up in parallel to those that belong to the Scouting Association. Obviously in Northern Ireland the uniform rules for a particular troop will be entirely different depending on whether it belongs to the Scouting Association or to Scouting Ireland, as they are entirely separate organisations, although both are national member organisations belonging to WOSM, like the BSA is in the US.

[iang]

When the "top officials" were consulted about wearing the kilt, which country are we talking about?

I do not think that BP ever wore a kilt. In his time the use of a kilt was used only in the military or by the highland Scots. Not even lowland Scots would wear one.

BP would under no circumstances wear a military kilt as this would be donning the uniform of a regiment that he had never served in. As BP was a great respecter of regiments in the British army he would never have worn a military kilt.

BP mentioned Scots often but never as assuming anything of them. He mentioned that the Scots scouts may wear kilts but that was because he respected their heritage.

His best friend in his life was a MacLaren (The Boy) and if he was in the possesion of a kilt he would have gotten it from him. This MacLaren is the one who was with him at Brownsea, not the one who donated Gilwell.

I would be very grateful to anyone who can provide me with a picture of BP in a kilt or provide written evidence that he ever wore on.

Iang

[Spartan]

His best friend in his life was a MacLaren (The Boy) and if he was in the possesion of a kilt he would have gotten it from him. This MacLaren is the one who was with him at Brownsea, not the one who donated Gilwell.

Iang

Are there two MacLarens? According to A History of Wood Badge in the United States, published by the Boy Scouts of America, Gilwell Park was donated to the Boy Scout Association in 1919 by District Commissioner W. DuBois MacLaren, and is maintained by the British Boy Scout Association. (p. 8) The first Wood Badge Course was held there September 8-19, 1919. (Brief History of Wood Badge) The course fee was £5.

"The Gilwell neckerchief displays the tartan of the clan MacLaren, to commemorate in perpetuity the generosity of Gilwell's donor." (p. 9)

Interestingly, this unidentified photo, presumably taken at Gilwell, appears on p. 11 of the book.

[Pleater]

Yes there were two MacLarens.

Our 'local' one is Kenneth MacLaren, Brownsea Island is in Poole harbour - I can almost see it from the back bedroom window of our house. I think it would have been visible from the upper windows when the house was first built, just over 100 years ago, but in the years between the wars the area became more built up and we no longer have the view of the whole harbour.

We could see it from the top of the scaffolding when the roof was repaired - we did some painting whilst it was available and the view was worth the climb.

Anne the Pleater :ootd:

[dadgad]

Just to add another picture of kilted scouter. That was at Baltimore Area Council's Powder Horn course last spring.

[AZ_Scouter]

When the "top officials" were consulted about wearing the kilt, which country are we talking about?

I do not think that BP ever wore a kilt. In his time the use of a kilt was used only in the military or by the highland Scots. Not even lowland Scots would wear one.

I would be very grateful to anyone who can provide me with a picture of BP in a kilt or provide written evidence that he ever wore on.

Iang