Kilts in the office

[KiltedCodeWarrior]

I fight dirty. It sounds like your manager gave you permission, is that right? He gave a qualifier to cover himself, was that a directive to follow prior to wearing the kilt?

If that is what you heard then wear it and let HR chase you. Let them come up with the violation, we can help with the response.

If that is not the case, don't take your statements to HR, your statements don't hold water (sorry, I can go over them with you later.) Send HR a memo saying two sentences: you intend to wear a kilt; you wisht to have their okay. Again, make them come up with the violation/problem, on paper. It's more fun this way.

Archangel, my manager gave me his support. He did not give a directive, I mentioned to him that I would be talking to HR and he mentioned someone else who handles the HR issues for our area that I had not had a chance to meet. No directive, just information.

While I agree that given his support, I could decide to just wear one in tomorrow. However, my personality is that I would rather have all of the issues settled before wearing the kilt for the first day. As I have stated previously in this thread, if I were at a different point in my career and family life, I might take that approach. However, I actually am very happy with my current job and really don't want to turn it into a hostile workplace for me and my colleagues.

I am actually not going to present my 3 reasons to HR, I was actually going to do exactly what you proposed, which is communicate my intent to wear a kilt and request HR acceptance of the matter. The reasons are more in response to being questioned on why I want to wear a kilt, and I would be interested in why you feel that they do not hold water.

RJI, trying to bring the kilt out of the cave and stop living the life of a troglodyte! (Sorry Alan, had to use it, its a fun word and even more fun to say out loud!)

RJI

[Riverkilt]

Warrior,

You would also be on solid ground to point out that there is, in fact, a kilt fashion boom on for men. Much evidence abounds on line, on the kilts in the media forum, et.al. Point being that you're not some sort of a looney, just on the cutting edge of a new fashion movement as well.

You'll do well. With your appropriate approach and a good HR dept, you'll be fine.

Must warn you though that after you're accepted and enjoying it you'll come to a point where you won't wear pants for fear of the teasing...the world gets turned upside down.

Tally Ho!

Ron

[KiltedCodeWarrior]

...Must warn you though that after you're accepted and enjoying it you'll come to a point where you won't wear pants for fear of the teasing...the world gets turned upside down.

Tally Ho!

Ron

Ron,

I can only hope! I have already had this thought. What if I decide that I need to wear pants for some obscure reason, rock climbing I think came up as an example, what do I do?

So many questions, so little time and answers.

RJI

[David Thornton]

Buy majority ownership of your office. Then you can bring the dogs to work, wear a kilt, whatever.
The hours are attrocious, the headaches are worse, but you can wear a kilt anytime you like!
David

[KiltedCodeWarrior]

Buy majority ownership of your office. Then you can bring the dogs to work, wear a kilt, whatever.
The hours are attrocious, the headaches are worse, but you can wear a kilt anytime you like!
David

David, if only! However the capital needed to do that for my present company would be in the multiple billions, and I actually think it woud be in the multiple hundred billions!

RJI

[Archangel]

However, I actually am very happy with my current job and really don't want to turn it into a hostile workplace for me and my colleagues.

I am actually not going to present my 3 reasons to HR, I was actually going to do exactly what you proposed, which is communicate my intent to wear a kilt and request HR acceptance of the matter. The reasons are more in response to being questioned on why I want to wear a kilt, and I would be interested in why you feel that they do not hold water

RJI

It's very important to me that you don't have a hostile workplace. I certainly don't mean for my aggressive reaction to be your practice. It's the way I plan, always have a script. Diplomacy comes hard to me, planning a fight comes way to easy.

Background: I'm one of a team of union trained people who teach about the kind of questions you are asking. Right now this is on a weekly basis, it will be full time through October.

Sometimes, it is hard to anticipate the obstructions that management will put in your path. Far better to have them initiate, instead of you providing additional arguments. By the way, all this is on the assumption that there may be an issue. It may go very well but it's best to have a script.

So, why won't they hold water? I don't mean any disrespect here, I didn't have time to go over them before. (I'm realizing that I'm saying "you" a lot, please don't think of them as raindrops, that's a Scottish term for pointy stabbing motion with the index finger pointed at you.)

1. Part of my cultural heritage: recognize that I'm in Canada and our Human Rights laws are different. In any case, most models of Human Rights do not include "culture". You would not be able to demonstrate that your culture would condemn you for not wearing a kilt. You could not show universality of a kilt within your culture. You could probably not define your culture. If you went to "nationality", you would have a better chance but would still be stuck with the same questions. If you won on this, you would be limiting yourself to traditional tartan kilts, according to some authority you may not agree with.

2. More comfortable than trousers: this would be a "so what" to them and allow them to intrude into your present fashion style. They could ask personal health questions since you've opened the door. They could recommend different material, cut, colour and believe that they've solved the problem. You would then be considered uncooperative and have an agenda (which you do, but they've now twisted it to be a bad thing.) How much of a working knowledge do have of textiles and design to challenge them (as if they do, but they're challenging you and it would be a fair question. You want to be able to control this and not get sidetracked by these question.)

3. Expands my wardrobe choices: this is another "so what" statement. What do they care if you are frustrated by this? Their response: probably most workers are and have learned to deal with it without making a public spectacle. You're talking to a culture that shows fashion by changes in ties. This would also sound like you would be going outside the dress code which they won't allow.

I don't mean to sound discouraging. Please, go for it. I just want you to have sharp weapons in your hand for this fight. I wouldn't be doing this because the nature of my job realistically prevents it. However, I am trained in the methods of this kind of issue.

Here's the script. Memo is good, it creates a paper trail. Consider the politics of using your manager's name on the memo: would he be okay with that, or would that be putting an ally on the spot? Keep the memo real short, two statements, you tell them. Make them come back with the questions, on paper. Make them explain the question before you answer. (Maybe post it here.) Keep it clear that you are trying to work within the system. Do some homework, the US is fairly primitive in terms of Human Rights and you need to know what is covered where you are.

The challenge will be that your best argument is the gender clothing one. If it's not safe for you to wear a skirt, then it's not safe for the women either. The backlash is that you may have your sexual orientation challenged. The Scottish response is to laugh and shrug it off. It's part of the fight, don't let it distract you.

The encouragement: jurisprudence is that when push comes to shove, the right to wear a kilt has usually won. That means legal history is on your side. A recent thread gave a very good American example. A lot of people here are already doing it. Keep your dignity and plan for a long campaign. If you're denied, ask for possible exemptions like the ones already discussed.

Or, on the other hand, remember that it is easier to ask for forgiveness, than to get permission. Bad voice, get back in head.

[yoippari]

I don't want to look for a fight (not with you, with potential employers) with this but I have apretty good chance of getting a parts running part time job while I am in college (I will be starting classes to 26th, 4 days). Basicly it will be driving a truck around picking up parts from various vendors and delivering them back to the shop. It is a small plumbing business and all I would be doing is interacting with the owner, the business' parts vendors and a truck that I may be driving up to (probably a rare occurance) 200 miles in one day.

My question is how would I approch wearing a kilt in this environment? There is no memo system, no human resources department, just a guy and his 7(?) employees who he does not want to pay ~$30 an hour to sit in front of a parts vendor in a truck.

[motorman4life]

My question is how would I approch wearing a kilt in this environment? There is no memo system, no human resources department, just a guy and his 7(?) employees who he does not want to pay ~$30 an hour to sit in front of a parts vendor in a truck.

I think a kilt would be ideal for this situation because once they will get to know you quickly and won't forget you if you wear a kilt everyday. Also, as soon as you walk in, they will know what you are there for.. because you will stick in their heads. I remember someone else, in the Denver area, posting here about how they make rounds at offices and everyone remembers him, recognizes him immediately and directs their attention to him immediately when he comes in, saving him time and giving him a huge edge over his competition.

Just a thought.

[yoippari]

You may have a point there. But how would I introduce a kilt? I might meet with the business owner (the boss) before my first day of work, that is if I get the job, and if so then I could let him see the kilt first hand. Of course it might be better to ask him when meeting him or once I get the job and have already made the rounds once or twice.

Oh, and sorry for hijacking the thread but at least it's still on topic.

[Archangel]

You may have a point there. But how would I introduce a kilt? I might meet with the business owner (the boss) before my first day of work, that is if I get the job, and if so then I could let him see the kilt first hand. Of course it might be better to ask him when meeting him or once I get the job and have already made the rounds once or twice.

Oh, and sorry for hijacking the thread but at least it's still on topic.

I think somebody on this board has a job with one of the big courier companies where a kilt is an accepted alternative. Help me here somebody, am I remembering this right? If so, precedence is always good.