Kilts in the office

[Archangel]

However, I actually am very happy with my current job and really don't want to turn it into a hostile workplace for me and my colleagues.

I am actually not going to present my 3 reasons to HR, I was actually going to do exactly what you proposed, which is communicate my intent to wear a kilt and request HR acceptance of the matter. The reasons are more in response to being questioned on why I want to wear a kilt, and I would be interested in why you feel that they do not hold water

RJI

It's very important to me that you don't have a hostile workplace. I certainly don't mean for my aggressive reaction to be your practice. It's the way I plan, always have a script. Diplomacy comes hard to me, planning a fight comes way to easy.

Background: I'm one of a team of union trained people who teach about the kind of questions you are asking. Right now this is on a weekly basis, it will be full time through October.

Sometimes, it is hard to anticipate the obstructions that management will put in your path. Far better to have them initiate, instead of you providing additional arguments. By the way, all this is on the assumption that there may be an issue. It may go very well but it's best to have a script.

So, why won't they hold water? I don't mean any disrespect here, I didn't have time to go over them before. (I'm realizing that I'm saying "you" a lot, please don't think of them as raindrops, that's a Scottish term for pointy stabbing motion with the index finger pointed at you.)

1. Part of my cultural heritage: recognize that I'm in Canada and our Human Rights laws are different. In any case, most models of Human Rights do not include "culture". You would not be able to demonstrate that your culture would condemn you for not wearing a kilt. You could not show universality of a kilt within your culture. You could probably not define your culture. If you went to "nationality", you would have a better chance but would still be stuck with the same questions. If you won on this, you would be limiting yourself to traditional tartan kilts, according to some authority you may not agree with.

2. More comfortable than trousers: this would be a "so what" to them and allow them to intrude into your present fashion style. They could ask personal health questions since you've opened the door. They could recommend different material, cut, colour and believe that they've solved the problem. You would then be considered uncooperative and have an agenda (which you do, but they've now twisted it to be a bad thing.) How much of a working knowledge do have of textiles and design to challenge them (as if they do, but they're challenging you and it would be a fair question. You want to be able to control this and not get sidetracked by these question.)

3. Expands my wardrobe choices: this is another "so what" statement. What do they care if you are frustrated by this? Their response: probably most workers are and have learned to deal with it without making a public spectacle. You're talking to a culture that shows fashion by changes in ties. This would also sound like you would be going outside the dress code which they won't allow.

I don't mean to sound discouraging. Please, go for it. I just want you to have sharp weapons in your hand for this fight. I wouldn't be doing this because the nature of my job realistically prevents it. However, I am trained in the methods of this kind of issue.

Here's the script. Memo is good, it creates a paper trail. Consider the politics of using your manager's name on the memo: would he be okay with that, or would that be putting an ally on the spot? Keep the memo real short, two statements, you tell them. Make them come back with the questions, on paper. Make them explain the question before you answer. (Maybe post it here.) Keep it clear that you are trying to work within the system. Do some homework, the US is fairly primitive in terms of Human Rights and you need to know what is covered where you are.

The challenge will be that your best argument is the gender clothing one. If it's not safe for you to wear a skirt, then it's not safe for the women either. The backlash is that you may have your sexual orientation challenged. The Scottish response is to laugh and shrug it off. It's part of the fight, don't let it distract you.

The encouragement: jurisprudence is that when push comes to shove, the right to wear a kilt has usually won. That means legal history is on your side. A recent thread gave a very good American example. A lot of people here are already doing it. Keep your dignity and plan for a long campaign. If you're denied, ask for possible exemptions like the ones already discussed.

Or, on the other hand, remember that it is easier to ask for forgiveness, than to get permission. Bad voice, get back in head.

[yoippari]

I don't want to look for a fight (not with you, with potential employers) with this but I have apretty good chance of getting a parts running part time job while I am in college (I will be starting classes to 26th, 4 days). Basicly it will be driving a truck around picking up parts from various vendors and delivering them back to the shop. It is a small plumbing business and all I would be doing is interacting with the owner, the business' parts vendors and a truck that I may be driving up to (probably a rare occurance) 200 miles in one day.

My question is how would I approch wearing a kilt in this environment? There is no memo system, no human resources department, just a guy and his 7(?) employees who he does not want to pay ~$30 an hour to sit in front of a parts vendor in a truck.

[motorman4life]

:confused: Now don't I look like a fool! so how many other people have been taken by the kiltday site in thinking it is for one specific day?

You may have been fooled into believing there was one specific day for National Kilt Day, but please be assured, the constantly changing date at www.kiltday.com was not intended to embarrass you. It was set up to give "new guys" a weapon in their arsenal when they encounter people that can’t wrap their minds around the idea that kilts are both comfortable and acceptable for everyday wear by men.

It was not intended to “fool” you.. it was intended to “fool” your boss.. when you wear your kilt to work and he says, “Hey, what’s with the skirt?” You can do like others and first explain that it is a men’s kilt, then explain that it is Kilt Day. Send anyone that asks to KiltDay.com and they’ll believe you!

Then, maybe after they see it is not disruptive, that you can perform your job in a kilt and that you do in fact work in a professional environment where proper attire, such as a kilt, can be worn without any of the problems they may anticipate otherwise. I think employers that deny men the freedom to wear a kilt at work out of fear that it would be disruptive are clearly admitting the work environment is not professional enough and the employees are not mature or intelligent enough to deal with something that is even slightly different.

What they really need to understand is that it is NOT crossdressing, any more than women in pants are crossdressing. If women can do your job in a skirt, there is no reason you should not be allowed to do your job in a proper kilt.

If you have the courage, everyday is Kilt Day.

[motorman4life]

My question is how would I approch wearing a kilt in this environment? There is no memo system, no human resources department, just a guy and his 7(?) employees who he does not want to pay ~$30 an hour to sit in front of a parts vendor in a truck.

I think a kilt would be ideal for this situation because once they will get to know you quickly and won't forget you if you wear a kilt everyday. Also, as soon as you walk in, they will know what you are there for.. because you will stick in their heads. I remember someone else, in the Denver area, posting here about how they make rounds at offices and everyone remembers him, recognizes him immediately and directs their attention to him immediately when he comes in, saving him time and giving him a huge edge over his competition.

Just a thought.

[yoippari]

You may have a point there. But how would I introduce a kilt? I might meet with the business owner (the boss) before my first day of work, that is if I get the job, and if so then I could let him see the kilt first hand. Of course it might be better to ask him when meeting him or once I get the job and have already made the rounds once or twice.

Oh, and sorry for hijacking the thread but at least it's still on topic.

[Archangel]

You may have a point there. But how would I introduce a kilt? I might meet with the business owner (the boss) before my first day of work, that is if I get the job, and if so then I could let him see the kilt first hand. Of course it might be better to ask him when meeting him or once I get the job and have already made the rounds once or twice.

Oh, and sorry for hijacking the thread but at least it's still on topic.

I think somebody on this board has a job with one of the big courier companies where a kilt is an accepted alternative. Help me here somebody, am I remembering this right? If so, precedence is always good.

[davedove]

I don't want to look for a fight (not with you, with potential employers) with this but I have apretty good chance of getting a parts running part time job while I am in college (I will be starting classes to 26th, 4 days). Basicly it will be driving a truck around picking up parts from various vendors and delivering them back to the shop. It is a small plumbing business and all I would be doing is interacting with the owner, the business' parts vendors and a truck that I may be driving up to (probably a rare occurance) 200 miles in one day.

My question is how would I approch wearing a kilt in this environment? There is no memo system, no human resources department, just a guy and his 7(?) employees who he does not want to pay ~$30 an hour to sit in front of a parts vendor in a truck.

I assume since it's a small business, you probably won't have a set uniform to wear. If you do, we can't help you. But, if there's no uniform, you shouldn't have a problem. I can't imagine there is any safety issue either, so that's not a concern. As long as you dress respectfully and represent the employer well, kilt or trousers, dress as you like.

[Alan H]

KCW, Archangel DOES have a point. I mean, once you get acceptance from your boss, and possibly HIS boss, or someone else with some authority, then there comes a point where you just DO it.

As the old saying goes, it's easier to beg forgiveness than ask permission.

Let's say you clear it with someone else in the company "chain". If that's your contactperson in HR, then cool. Then you just wear your kilt. You will, of course, be sure to wear it in an entirely professional manner. If you work in a financial institution and suits and ties are the accepted norm, then you'll need to drop some cash on a real, and I mean REAL kilt jacket and possibly a waistcoat to go underneath it.. No "budget fakes" by altering a sportscoat, get a real jacket.

Think on it. How many suits or sportcoat/slacks combinations do you have for work? I bet you have at least 4-5. You'll need 4-5 kilt/jacket combinations, too if you're going to do this full-time. That's some serious cash. Start out with one and see how it goes and if you like it.

Bu yeah, be courteous, be smart, document everything with memos and e-mail, but don't go LOOKING for trouble. I'd say once you have your bosses OK and the OK of one person in HR, then document their acceptance in an e-mail or a memo and then just GO for it. At that it's up to someone inthe company or in HR to file a complaintand then have the HR department chase it down. That's a LOT different from asking ten different people in positions of authority, because if you do that, you'll be sure to find at least one who won't like it,and then you're hosed.

[Alan H]

BTW KCW,do NOT wear a standard mens sportscoat to work where you must present a professional and more formal appearance. They don't work, they're cut too long,the lines just don't work. Start watching ebay, or shop the Kilt Store link at the top of the page for a real kilt jacket, probably one without shiny buttons, and grit your teeth and spend the money.

[auld argonian]

For myself, it's difficult to deal with ordering a jacket without being able to try it on. It's usually the way the shoulders fit...and one manufacturer's 42 regular isn't the same as another's. I understand that stuff can be sent back...but that can be difficult just within the continental US, let alone overseas. There's the possibility of getting a tailor to alter things but my experience with a lot of them is that they do not want to mess with the shoulders of a jacket...somehow that's really difficult, even when you ask them to take some of the padding out of them to avoid that "Clark Kent" look where the shoulders of the jacket look exagerated. And it's easy to say, "Find another tailor," but I have to tell you that this has been my experience with just about every one that I've spoken to...who wants to make finding a tailor a full-time job?

Do any of the "Hong Kong" tailors operate like they used to twenty odd years ago...they guy that my family used would send out postcards ahead of time and announce when he'd be in town and where he'd be staying (usually for several days). You'd make an apointment, show up, get measured and look at fabrics and order your stuff. A couple of months later it would show up in the post and it was usually top-notch. Perhaps somebody should try to work something like that out: send a representative on a tour of the US with samples and a tape measure and take orders.

Like a lot of people, I don't mind spending money on something that's worth it...I just don't want to get into a situation where I'm going back and forth and searching for alterations. I haven't got the time or the patience.

best

Auld Argonian