Kilt, Skirt, MUG, etc.

[arrogcow]

Kilt/skirt
shirt/blouse
trousers/slacks
underwear/panties
bro or manzier/bra (ok that's from Seinfeld)

Many articles of clothing have a "boys name" and a "girls name". Kilts are no more "skirts for men" than shirts are "blouses for men".

The "shirt" of a military BDU is a blouse. that is what it is called.

Adam

[KiltedCodeWarrior]

MUG (Male Un-bifurcated Garment) is a term coined by the Utilikilts crowd.
The UK is not, and does not pretend to be related to the Celtic Kilt, Cilt.
Because the intent was to develop a totally new type of garment it was thought a new term should be invented also.

My choice for a term to describe the style of Kilt I manufacture is "Contemporary Kilt".

For high waisted, buckled, Tartan kilts I use the wording "Traditional", with a differentation between "Tank" for an 8yd. handsewn, and "Casual" for a less than 8yd and/or machine sewn.

Steve, thanks for weighing in! I think that you and the other kilt makers have a vested interest in what people call this garment. I especially like the fact that you expalined your view point on how MUG came to be, and your own terminology for each of the categories. I think that will help others.
RJI

[KiltedCodeWarrior]

Currently, I only wear UKs (when I wear a kilt), but I wear them anywhere when the mood takes me - to the college campus where I'm a student, to my wifes elementary/junior high school where she is a teacher, to the grocery store ... whatever. Generaly, people who don't know me don't say anything unless it's positive in some way. Those that do know me, actually or by sight, and haven't seen the UKs before, aren't sure what to call it so by default they call it a skirt. The comments are generaly either quizzical, which I answer, or positive, which I simply smile and say thanks. I don't see any reason to get upset over a name if it's not someone being truely malicious; if you don't take offense they generaly stop trying to get a rise out of you. Besides, kilt or not, it's still a skirt ... a man's skirt!....

As for the truely malicious comments ... I'm 6'2", 220lbs., and have what more than a few friends and strangers have described as "a dangerous look" about me (why? I'm not sure), so I haven't had to deal with the really rude people. ;)

Iolaus and James,

I am in pretty much perfect agreement with both of you. Iolaus' opinions match my own and are one of the reasons I started this thread, as I thought I had detected that others felt differently and I wanted understand why. As Shakespeare said "A rose by any other name...".

Even though I am still catching up on this thread, so far it seems like most here have a similar open minded attitude. It is a kilt, but we recognize, and can accept, when somebody calls it a skirt. I agree with James' observation that referring to a kilt as a skirt, by the un-kilted (is that like the undead?), could be nothing more than ignorance on the other person's part. This would definitely call for a low key instructional response. However, if it is your best buddy from college and said for the 15th time, than a hearty "Piss off mate!" is acceptable and required!

RJI, off to read the remaining 4 pages in this thread!

[KiltedCodeWarrior]

...
Main Entry: 1skirt
Pronunciation: 'sk&rt
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old Norse skyrta shirt, kirtle -- more at SHIRT
1 a (1) : a free-hanging part of an outer garment or undergarment extending from the waist down (2) : a separate free-hanging outer garment or undergarment usually worn by women and girls covering some or all of the body from the waist down b : either of two usually leather flaps on a saddle covering the bars on which the stirrups are hung c : a cloth facing that hangs from the bottom edge or across the front of a piece of furniture d : the lower branches of a tree when near the ground
2 a : the rim, periphery, or environs of an area b plural : outlying parts (as of a town or city)...

Great research Shay, now to find "two usually leather flaps on a saddle covering the bars on which the stirrups are hung". I am not sure how I would wear it (or even what it is!), but it sounds like a lot of fun and I bet it would draw a lot more attention than a kilt!!

[Southern Breeze]

Great research Shay, now to find "two usually leather flaps on a saddle covering the bars on which the stirrups are hung". I am not sure how I would wear it (or even what it is!), but it sounds like a lot of fun and I bet it would draw a lot more attention than a kilt!!

Sounds kinda kinky to me!

[KiltedCodeWarrior]

An outstanding discussion on this topic. I thank everyone for their opinions and look forward to more. I expected this to be a very controversial thread and am happy to see that those on this site are above worrying about semantics and are more concerned with the wearing of the kilt.

RJI

[jkdesq]

A kilt is not a "skirt for men"? Then why does the dictionary definition say it is?

My dictionary -- Oxford English Dictionary (the only English dictionary that really matters--well with the exception of the Canadian Oxford Dictionary) -- defines a "kilt" as a "skirtlike garment". There is a difference between being a "skirt" and being "skirtlike".

Also the OED defines "skirt" as meaning "a woman's outer garment haging from the waist". I see little room in this definition to include a man's kilt.

Men that wear blouses? Who knew. Looking the word "blouse" up in the OED, this suggestion is confirmed. According to the OED a blouse can be 1 "a woman's loose, usu. lighweight, upper garment, usu. buttoned and collared. b the upper part of a soldier's or airman's battledress. 2 a workman's or peasant's loose linen or cotton garment, usu. belted at the waist". It seems to me the uses of "blouse" to describe garments for men are very specific. I don't think I wear a blouse when I wear a suit and tie.

Perhaps I didn't make my point very well. I was trying to suggest that there are alot of things that are more or less the same, but are known by different names depending on cultural context. Lines are blurry. Where is the line that separates a boat from a ship? Is a wine glass a "cup"? The words we use derive their value from the shared meaning that individuals in a culture attribute to them. Language is a social construct. If you scratch to deeply at the nomenclature of things, the exercise becomes meaningless.

English has a vocabulary that arises from convention. We don't have a prescribed language like French and Italian speakers. It is the meaning understood by the typical English speaker that is most important. If someone says "skirt" to me, I think of a garment intended for women. If someone says "kilt" I think of a garment for men or women. There is no situation where I would hear the word "skirt" and think of a garment intended for a man.

The word "skirt" is extremely feminine and very closely associated with women. The OED gives one meaning of the word "skirt" as a slang term for "a woman regarded as an object of sexual desire". I don't think a word can get any more feminine than that. I think you should be more willing to call your briefs "panties" (when you wear them) than call your kilt a "skirt".

My vote is that we should discourage any use of the word "skirt" to describe a kilt.

[Pittsburgh Kilts]

I have a few friends that call my kilts skirts in a mocking way... maybe trying to get a "rise" out of me. Like I've said here before, my usual response is "If it really turns you on, you can call it a skirt... otherwise, it's a kilt." That usually stops the comments, at least for that day. Some seem to expect that response and have stopped calling it a skirt or have stopped even acknowledging it, particularly if they feel they will get ribbed by others for my insinuating response.

That's pretty good, Motorman! When I get the "hey, nice skirt" comment, I usually just smile and say, "Thank you. A lot of people call this a 'kilt', but I wouldn't expect you to know that." That usually gets them going! "Hey, I know what a kilt is! I'm not dumb!"

Guess what? Then next time, they generally call it a kilt right away!

[Dreadbelly]

All oranges are fruit.

Not all fruit is oranges.

All kilts are skirts.

Not all skirts are kilts.

[jkdesq]

All oranges are fruit.

Not all fruit is oranges.

All kilts are skirts.

Not all skirts are kilts.

I disagree and so does the OED. As the OED defines a "skirt" as a garment for woman, the only kilt fitting within the OED's definition of "skirt" is a woman's kilt.

A man's kilt is not a skirt. I guess to put it into your parlance, a man's kilt is not a fruit but a vegetable.