Starting a kilt, got questions!

[Alan H]

First off, our waist, butt and length measurements are *exactly* the same.

~*~*I~Insert Twilight Zone Music, here...dooo-de-dooo-dooo, dooo-de-dooo-dooo)~*~*~

you can go a bit skimpy on the pleats and play it safe. Here's how my kilt laid out.

Waistband of the over-apron was 20 inches because my waist is 40 inches. Hey, I hadn't read Barb's book on splitting the measurements when I'd started this thing!!! LOLOL

Bottom of the over apron was more like 24 inches, though, since the over-apron is A-shaped. OK, so figure that 24 inches goes into the over apron and 24 inches goes into the under-apron. I added two more inches to the over apron because I folded over the right hand edge of the cloth and stitched it down with two lines of straight stitch. I let about half an inch of the raw edge hang out, and it frayed, which is what I wanted. OK, so ACTUALLY, I allotted 26 inches for the over-apron, but for rough calculations, 24, or two feet will do.

So the over apron and the under apron, combined use up four feet of cloth.

OK, let's work our way around the kilt that I made.

The first pleat I made on the left side I made 5.25 inches deep. That meant that 4 inches of the pleat was hidden under the apron, at the waistline and 1.25 inches of the pleat was visible. I made it, and the second pleat on the left side a bit fan-shaped to allow the kilt to curve around my waist more naturally. Look at pictures of kilts laid out flat and you'll see why. You can see some of that fan-shaping in the pics that I posted. I might have overdone it a bit, though but it looks OK.

HINT...make that first pleat that mostly lies under the over-apron more like 7-8 inches deep. This is something big that I learned on this kilt. Don't skimp on that first pleat that lies under the left edge of the apron. Take a look at your Stillwater, eh? That's a BIG pleat!

OK, I then made 17 pleats, each 3.25 inches deep. Two inches were hidden and 1.25 inches were showing. Why 17 pleats and 1.25 inches? Because my USA Kilts philabeg has 15 pleats that show 1.5 inches and it looks pretty good, but I wanted something that had slightly smaller, and more pleats. Yet for my first kilt I didn't want to sew 25 pleats. 17-19 seemed like a good compromise. Well half of my 40-inch wasitline (20 inches) divided into 17 pleats give a revealed pleat size of 1.18 inches, or close enough to 1.25 that I figured I'd go with it.

So across the back of my kilt I have 17 pleats, with two inches hidden and 1.25 inches showing for a total pleat depth of 3.25 inches. I tapered the pleats a very little bit up towards the waist, not even an eigth of an inch. I wish I'd done a bit more, but it was seriously hard to do this on the heavy canvas I was working with.

Anyway, how much material do the pleats take?

17 x 3.25 = 55.25 inches which is about 4.75 feet

BTW, not all of my pleats were *exactly* the same depth. They might vary by as much as a 1/4 of an inch. I had to make one deeper to hide a mistake I made with the seam ripper when I had to rip out a line of stitching I'd done in the wrong place. However, I was "reasonably close" to 2 inches all the way around.

At the bottom of the under-fold of the last pleat I ran out of material that I'd cut from one-half of the canvas I bought. Obviously I needed more, so I laid out the canvas again, and cut out a 2.5 foot length. Oh, to have made it 3 feet, but so be it. I matched it to the raw edge of the already-pleated material, stitched it in and used an overlock stitch to limit the fraying. Now that seam is in exactly the same position the first inner crease would be in for the last, box pleat on the right side of the kilt. It's totally invisible, even under close inspection (...unless the inspector gets INSIDE the kilt, and then I have other things on my mind besides a little fraying on a hem!)

OK, I made the box pleat about the right size, since I'd learned from my frugality on the other side. That box pleat is 7 inches deep, 3.5 inches one way and 3.5 inches the other way. Think about how a box pleat is constructed and you'll understand why that ate up 14 inches of material.

Now we move on to the under apron, and here's where I wish I'd cut more material. My under-apron is OK, but the bottom of it should be six inches longer. Somehow, magically more material disappeared into the kilt that I calculated it would. HINT....be generous on your allowances for the under-apron. Remember that my under-apron is supposed to be 24 inches, long, or 2 feet.

*WHEW*

so how much material did I use?

Over apron: 26 inches
"kick" or reverse pleat under left edge of over-apron: 5.25 inches
17 pleats 'round the back: 55.75 inches
Box pleat at right edge: 14 inches
under apron: 24 inches

TOTAL: 125 inches of material, or 10.42 feet or 3.5 yards.

HINT...do not cut out exactly how much you'll need and figure that there will be no issues. WRONG. Cut out a MINIMUM of an extra foot, maybe two. Material seemed to magically disappear as I put this thing together.

The only major change I'll make to the next single-color kilt is allotting more like 7 inches to the "kick" pleat. Maybe I'll make the pleats 2 inches deep with a 1-inch reveal, thereby giving me about 20-21 pleats 'round me buttocks.

The other change is to use a lighter material. That will be a ton easier to work with, and will also allow me to taper the pleats slightly up at the waistband, which will be nice.

Here's the honest truth about how I got started with my kilt. I copied Rocky's USA Kilts Philabeg. My waistband is exactly the same as the philabegs. As I got going on it I got some of my own ideas and incorporated them, but I started out to basically build a canvas USA Kilts philabeg. The USA Kilts philabeg is a good place to start because structurally it's a very simple kilt. What I wound up with is quite different from Rocky's kilt, but it provided a good starting point.

You can machine-stitch your kilts, KCW, but the lines of stitching will show. In a traditional tartan kilt that's a no-no, but in the more casual kilts that you're making, no biggie. Rocky's philabeg shows its stitiching. So does a Freedom Kilt, and so does a Utilikilt. So, no worries.

[KiltedCodeWarrior]

Alan,

That is awesome (for me at least) that we have the same measurements, it will take out some of the guesswork for me that you had to go through.

I was hoping that you would chime in with some good information and this is great. Not only is it some good detailed information, you have helped me visualize how it goes together. Quick question, I have been thinking about cutting my material to length, but leave the full width and trim the excess from the underapron after I have the apron and all the pleats in. Do you think that would work? Anybody else have an opinion?

I did not look closely at your pictures while wearing it (will try to see now) but where were you intending to wer this kilt, like a trad or at the hips like pants, and is that where it ended up when you were done?

RJI

Note to self, watch for when Alan gets tired with his kilts or maybe just some of them, might be able to get a good deal!

[Alan H]

This is how I decided on length. It just goes to show how UN-sopnhisticated I am.

I have two Stillwater kilts and I like 'em. They're 24' in length.
I have a USA Kilt philabeg. It's 24 inches in length. I like it.
I have a Bear Kilt formal Cut. It's 24 inches in length. I'm wearing it as I write this.

I think I'll make my kilts 24 inches in length.

OK, so how did I do this?

I washed my canvas and laid it out on the floor. Rocky's philabeg was in the other room. I looked at how Rocky did his waistband. Basically, he cuts the length you want out of one edge of the material, plus about 4 inches. He overlocks the raw edge (the edge he just cut, or ripped) , leaving the selvedge at the bottom of the kilt. Then He irons down the top of the kilt, folding over that extra four inches.

Well, that's pretty simple. Even *I* can figure this out, so that's what I did.

One suggestion, though. If you're going to do it this way and you're going to use velcro for the closure, sew the velcro on the inside of the over-apron BEFORE starting the kilt. You'll save yourself a mess of hand-stitching that way. Well, if you want to hide the velcro stitching and not have it show on the front of the over-apron, anyway.

Then again, you'll have to iron "around" the velcro to smooth things out, so maybe that's not such a good idea. I dunno.

[Shay]

Alan H- you reminded me of something funny- my sister ironing Velcro on a jacket to 'straighten it out' and ending up with a melted puddle of plastic years ago.

I modeled my kilt after an Amerikilt, doing many of the same things, figuring out the construction, adding a couple things I wanted in, etc. I'll try to tell how I made it in case you're interested.

The way I made my kilt (which had a waistband) was to sew the pleats in the fabric using the selvedge as the hem. I double-rolled one end to serve as an apron- that means I sewed down the edge, then folded that seam over and sewed it again to stop any of the fabric from unraveling and give the edge some weight. Twelve inches of fabric followed for the apron. Then I started my pleating, using a three/one knife pleat that was two inches deep. So every pleat took six inches of fabric- two for the top, two for the zigzag in the middle, and two for the bottom. Once I had enough pleats that I was ten inches or so away from the waist size I wanted, I stopped pleating- that would be the part that went under the apron.

I cut a long piece for the waistband, the length of the kilt plus a couple inches. Then I (should have) sewed the velcro stips on the inside and outside ends and sewed the ends down on themselves*. I laid out the strip across the kilt, and pinned it to the inside of the kilt with the raw edge parallel with the top of the pleats. So now the strip that will be my waistband is basically flipped inside the kilt. I made a seam about a half inch from the top.

I then pulled that up, so now the waistband is flipped up, and the inside raw edge is hidden by the seam. That way the fabric won't ravel or shed against a shirt. I carefully ironed the other long side of the strip down about a half inch, and ironed the strip slightly more than in half lengthwise, so that the fold I had just ironed down sat on top of the kilt's pleats on the outside and under the fold/seam inside.

I made belt loops out of tubes of fabric, and pinned them around the top of the kilt, so about a half inch of tube came down from the top of the band, and sewed them down with an X in a box method my machine has programmed into it- you could probably get away with just sewing a line across near the top of the band, but I like to make sure things stay put. Then I folded down the tube, folded the other end inside, and pinned it to the bottom of the band, to be sewn down in the next step.

Anyway, I then topstitched over the band's bottom fold, all the way around, with a seam slightly below the inside seam. That way I wasn't trying to sew through seven layers of fabric at once, only five. Except for the belt loops. Gah. It takes a helluvalotta pins, luckily I have a nice magnetic pin catcher on my machine.

Also- when making a waistband, take that into consideration when figuring the length of the kilt. I had to trim a little off the top of the pleats to get the right length with a 2 1/2 inch waistband. I'd recommend cutting after you've done all the pleating, not before, it never hurts to have a little insurance fabric out there.


*Alan's right, it is a pain in the toosh to sew them on after

[KiltedCodeWarrior]

This is how I decided on length. It just goes to show how UN-sopnhisticated I am.

I have two Stillwater kilts and I like 'em. They're 24' in length.
I have a USA Kilt philabeg. It's 24 inches in length. I like it.
I have a Bear Kilt formal Cut. It's 24 inches in length. I'm wearing it as I write this.

I think I'll make my kilts 24 inches in length.

OK, so how did I do this?

I washed my canvas and laid it out on the floor. Rocky's philabeg was in the other room. I looked at how Rocky did his waistband. Basically, he cuts the length you want out of one edge of the material, plus about 4 inches. He overlocks the raw edge (the edge he just cut, or ripped) , leaving the selvedge at the bottom of the kilt. Then He irons down the top of the kilt, folding over that extra four inches.

Well, that's pretty simple. Even *I* can figure this out, so that's what I did.

One suggestion, though. If you're going to do it this way and you're going to use velcro for the closure, sew the velcro on the inside of the over-apron BEFORE starting the kilt. You'll save yourself a mess of hand-stitching that way. Well, if you want to hide the velcro stitching and not have it show on the front of the over-apron, anyway.

Then again, you'll have to iron "around" the velcro to smooth things out, so maybe that's not such a good idea. I dunno.

Alan, how did you do the pleating? I know that you just "guesstimated" on the number of pleats you wanted and then worked with what you had, but did you make a template of some kind, or just fold over each pleat, measure to insure the correct reveal, and stitch it down?

[Southern Breeze]

KCW-Thanks for mentioning the appendix,I tried to post a reply earlier but had internet trouble.The few questions that have come up while I work on my kilt have been answerd in your and Alan's posts.As long as you stay ahead of me,things will be okay.I'm making mine out of tan medium weight twill.So far,so good. :grin:

[KiltedCodeWarrior]

KCW-Thanks for mentioning the appendix,I tried to post a reply earlier but had internet trouble.The few questions that have come up while I work on my kilt have been answerd in your and Alan's posts.As long as you stay ahead of me,things will be okay.I'm making mine out of tan medium weight twill.So far,so good. :grin:

Southern Breeze,
Alan is the one who is ahead, I'm just making it up as I go along and hoping not to screwit up too badly. If you using a medium solid color twill, then you have a fabric that it probably similar to the blue one I am using, which I think is the greatest first choice for a kilt or the most damnable fabric in the world for a kilt depending on what stage I am at. I think that the gray material I bought it actually going to be a little easier. Since I bought double width material, I can mess up the first one in both fabrics and still have enough material to make one free of my initial mistakes.

Keep us informed on yor progress, and I will do the same. To date I have cut the material to the correct length, marked the apron edges and center pleat location. What I am struggling with, based on Barb's book, is how to lay out the pleats. The book assumes you will have a tartan that will dictate the pleat size, whether pleating to the sett or stripe, based on the amount o material you have and the person to be kilted. What I, and you, have is a set amount of material, that can be pleated in any number of ways. The hardest for me is determining how many pleats (leaning toward ~ 29). that would give me approx 29 pleats with a 3/4" pleat size. My concern is that the pleat depth will be too shallow. Have to try and see!

[Alan H]

Alan, how did you do the pleating? I know that you just "guesstimated" on the number of pleats you wanted and then worked with what you had, but did you make a template of some kind, or just fold over each pleat, measure to insure the correct reveal, and stitch it down?

Yup. That's exactly what I did. No template. I just got out the ruler and started pleating. I knew I had more material that I knew what to do with so I just went for it.

BTW, I wore my canvas kilt to work yesterday. Never again. The pleats were a TOTAL mess after a full day of..in the car..sit down, stand up, crawl around...sit down, stand up.

A Mess... I will chalk this one up as a learning experience, so I'm OK with it, but my recommendation is to NOT make a kilt out of Carhart canvas.

[Southern Breeze]

I did my pleats the same way Alan did-grabbed a ruler and started pleating.
Barb-thanks for the additional tips.
I plan on making several more kilts out of Carrhart canvas.Since I'll be mostly standing while wearing them,their should'nt be any problems.My main reason for making my own kilts is to have some that are relativly inexpensive.That way I can wear them while working at a forge and not worry about what happens to them.

[Alan H]

I did my pleats the same way Alan did-grabbed a ruler and started pleating.
Barb-thanks for the additional tips.
I plan on making several more kilts out of Carrhart canvas.Since I'll be mostly standing while wearing them,their should'nt be any problems.My main reason for making my own kilts is to have some that are relativly inexpensive.That way I can wear them while working at a forge and not worry about what happens to them.

EH? How do you keep the pleats from going to H* in a handbasket during the day?