A Kilted Community? Time to put up or shut up!

[Alan H]

This is really really hard to write, here, but I'm going to have to do it. First up, I'm sorry about this post, I honestly am sorry to be writing this. It's going to smell bad, but sometimes reality bites.

I've been onlline for almost ten years. During that time I've been involved in a number of online forums/communities, ranging from sailing to music to Tolkien-based-fantasy-role-play to boat design to computer support. I've been active in one of those communites for nearly nine years.

During that time I've seen dozens of people declare various disasters in their lives. One told us about an abusive husband which she fled, leaving her daughter and everything she had behind her, to move to Vancouver. Another told us about a parent who died and despite the person being that parents sole source of support for the last twelve years of their convalescence, the parent wrote that person...who now had no job skills...out of the will. I remember the story, corroborated by someone else that our online community knew, about how this woman had been abandoned by her abusive husband, and was now living a barely-subsistance life on the remains of their ranch in Northern California. She didn't have the equipment to farm the ranch so she was going to look for a job in the town nearby, but her car broke down and she couldn't get into town for the job. If she could just fix the car, she could get back on her feet again, right?

I cannot tell you the number of cancer or other disease victims who declare that they're broke, about to lose their apartments and their lives will go down the drain.

In five of these cases, kind souls within the community have done what Doc just did...reached out to help, and I have responded. In one case a group of people, me included (I sent $50) pitched in to buy groceries, a used piano and sheet music for a woman who loved to play the piano, but had told us that she'd lost it in a fire. Another time I contributed money to a fund to fly someone who had lost everything back across the country so that they could live with their family, since they needed regular mediation for their autoimmune disease. A third time I contributed money to fly a man back from Australia to the USA because he was in the throes of kidney failure, but the Aussie State health care system couldn't help him long-term, he had to be back in the USA where Medicare could help him. Early on in my internet experience I loaned (LOANED) five hundred dollars to a woman who needed to get her car fixed so that she could get into town to work that job.

Without exception, without ONE exception, every single one of those causes was a fabrication, or at best was made by someone who in the end rejected the very people who helped them.

The woman with the piano had plenty of money and in fact wasn't running from an abusive husband, but was leaving the USA before her divorce was final. She'd sold the car and emptied the house of furniture in a garage sale, and cleaned out the bank account while her soon-to-be-ex was on a business trip. She took the cash to Canada. I met her face-to-face, actually. I had a beer with her and her Vancouver boyfriend in the Fogg and Sudds in the West End, in Vancouver, before the truth came out.

The woman who wanted to fly back to the East Coast to be with her family because she was broke and couldn't afford the medicine for her autoimmune disease, instead of flying to New Hampshire, took the money we all contributed and moved to Florida to be with her online BDSM "Master".

The man who needed airfare from Australia....got 3/4 of his fare paid for by a very good friend of mine named Kathy who was a United employee, (she cashed in one of her "perk" free tickets) moved, with his girlfriend to a place within 15 miles of where I lived. I met him five or six times, face-to-face. He wore out his welcome with the people who agree'd to put him up. He rejected Kathy in a spectacular, obscenity-laden blow-up on the telephone when I was in the room. The people he lived with here in San Jose told me he never went in for treatment for his kidney disease. I busted hump to find his girlfriend a job, since she was his only means of support. She never bothered to show up to either of the job interviews I got for her. Someone else did the same thing...she didn't show up for either of those interviews, either. When the people who were putting him up finally got sick of Larry and kicked him out, his girlfriend left and went back to Australia. He publically accused me of trying to seduce her. He finally refused to return phone calls or e-mails from anyone, and last I heard he died about a year ago in a State facility here the South Bay.

The woman to whom I loaned five hundred bucks? I never heard from her again. I could tell you three or four more stories like this that involve me directly, and I could tell you another dozen stories, just like these to which I happened not to have contributed. They rip my heart out.

This is a brutal post. It's sickening. I'm sorry. Over the years I have opened my wallet and my heart to a number of "friends" from online communities. Without exception, those contributions have turned out to be wasted, or given to people who really did not need them. Five times, and another half dozen that I know of, but didn't contribute to..... the internets track record in terms of honesty and online reliability is not very good, and I do not trust it any more.

I'm sorry. I wish Dreadbelly the very, very best. I wish him the best of luck, and I will have my fingers crossed for the man and for his wife. This is nothing, whatsever, personal against Dreadbelly. I've thoroughly enjoyed the man's posts here on X Marks, and is sounds like he's in a serious bind with S.S. right now. It sounds like a tough situation. Hang it there, mate! But I will not open my wallet again for someone that I do not know in person, or that I do not have documented, printed, certified evidence that I can see physically sitting on a table in front of me, proving beyond a reasonable doubt that they are really in trouble.

I'm sorry, and honestly.... I'm not sure anyone understands how honestly sorry I actually am, to be writing this post.

[Shay]

Alan H, I totally understand where you're coming from in this, I too have been scammed by people in 'trouble,' once on livejournal from someone who needed to keep an apartment (he actually lived with his parents), and once on a parenting board- she recieved over $200 for her child's medicine, much of it from poor single moms trying to help one of their own. We later found out she had done this on multiple boards and didn't even have a daughter.

I have also given money to people in trouble and seen the good it did, or sent things like baby clothes/maternity wear to people who became lifelong penpals. I recently went to New York to visit someone I had lent money to, never really expecting any back, who surprised me by paying it back with non-monetary interest- an invitation to camp on her land. I usually try to send things, rather than money, that I would have donated to charity anyway. Perhaps this is something you may be interested in doing in the future if you do feel moved to contribute to someone- all you're out is postage.

It's a decision people have to make on their own. I hope no one flames you for presenting the sad truth, but things like these do happen, and if you open your wallet or give anything to someone else based on what they present to you, there is always a chance it's a scam, even with charities or churches or other people with their hand out. I don't think Dread has his hand out in this case, we're just doing this on our own for one of our own. I thank you for reminding people that the online world, warm and comforting though it may be to us, does have it's dark spots.

[Dreadbelly]

Technically, I never asked for anything but prayer.

I have avoided this thread up to this point. Because frankly, I am uncomfortable about this whole thing for the very reasons that Alan has stated. I too, got burned trying to help somebody one time online. I didn't have much of anything, but I sent what little I could scrape together to help a fellow RA sufferer in an old RA support community I used to hang out on online. I won't talk about the situation, but we found out later that we had all been burned. I scraped half of the weeks grocery money together, about about 20 dollars, and sent it off. Drop in the bucket? Yeah. But I wanted to help. I learned a very hard lesson on that issue. Which is why I asked for nothing more than prayer during this time. I want nothing to do with anybody losing their faith in humanity.

I just thought I would say just this one thing. I am really very hesitant about this whole thing and still not sure what to make of it.

I really don't know what else to say.

[Alan H]

Alan H, I totally understand where you're coming from in this, I too have been scammed by people in 'trouble,' ......

I have also given money to people in trouble and seen the good it did, or sent things like baby clothes/maternity wear to people who became lifelong penpals......

It's a decision people have to make on their own. I hope no one flames you for presenting the sad truth, but things like these do happen,.........I thank you for reminding people that the online world, warm and comforting though it may be to us, does have it's dark spots.

Thanks, Shay. Inn all of those cases I don't really care about the money, though kissing $500 away kind of hurt. It was the gross abuse of trust that hurt the worst. Honestly, the one that still stops me cold is the one where I made a quilt square for someone in trouble, and the woman who collected all the square made the quilt and then instead of sending it to the person who was supposed to get it...sold it on ebay.. On EBAY....and kept the money. The fact that I met several of them face-to-face, both before and after helping them out, actually makes it harder. Maybe I've just been really unlucky. I'd really like to think that.

I'm glad to hear that you have had good experiences with helping out, online, Shay. I'm glad that someone has, and truth is the guy we flew over from Australia lived a year longer than he probably would have, if he'd been stuck in Oz.

BTW, my wife and I have given money to the Red Cross for Katrina victims, and we donate regularly every years to a number of charities. We happen to be keen on environmental organizations like the Nature Consdrvancy and the World Wildlife Fund, but we also give to Amnesty International, Second Harvest and a local hunger project. I've refurbed PC's for a local work-skills training outfit, and gotten MS operating system CD's and MS Office Suite CD's donated to the group. So I'm not heartless.

[Mike1]

Alan and Shay, I appreciate your candor. After the reactions my disclaimer aroused, it took a bit of fortitude to step up and be this honest. The examples you cited are just one of the reasons that forum members need to be clear on how this charity for Dread has been set up and who is and is not responsible for setting it up.

Neither of you are the only ones that have been "once bitten, twice shy". Reading something online does not always make it true, does it?

Now, before the crusaders swoop in here to cry "foul" at me a second time, let me be perfectly clear that I am not suggesting that Dread's situation is not real. Nor am I suggesting that anyone should not help him in an hour of need.

[LordDamax]

I dont blame you at all Alan... it was one of my first thoughts as well. I guess part of the belief for me is who the person is. For Dread to be fabricating all of this, he's gotta have a good career at it. He's been here a year with over 1400 posts, he's pissed people off to the point of almost being booted from the site, and his story is nothing new here... of course he could be investing a TON of time to make a few bucks from suckers like us... but... I just dont get the feeling thats the case from someone so involved in the community for so long.

I dunno. Just my 2 cents.

[Alan H]

Technically, I never asked for anything but prayer.

I have avoided this thread up to this point. Because frankly, I am uncomfortable about this whole thing for the very reasons that Alan has stated. .......

I just thought I would say just this one thing. I am really very hesitant about this whole thing and still not sure what to make of it.

I really don't know what else to say.

Dread, please, PLEASE understand that this is in no way,whatsoever personally directed at you. No way, not a chance. The situation sounds awful. I've had to deal with Federal Red Tape Wonks too, and it's just freaking impossible.

you have every crossed finger I can cross, X-Marked for you. I've dialed upstairs to the God I pray for saying "keep an eye out for Dread, willya?"

I'm pulling for you. Hang it there, Mate.

[usndoc]

This is not a flame of Alan at all.

I understand where you are coming from. But, I must say that I have seen even more dishonesty from people in person. We had a contractor skip out on us during a construction project recently. He looked us in the eye and said that he would complete the project before my sisters 1 year anniversary was up in May of this year. We fed this guy, he slept in our house. We trusted him. In the end, he took advantage of us.

On the other side I have met many good, trusted friends online. Some of them are people that I have eventually met in person. A lot of it has to do with where you hang out online. What kind of common bond that the group has, and the amount of time you have been together.

On a positive note, I met my fiance online. We have been together for over 2 years now. We are planning the wedding now and hopefully by this time next year she will be my wife.

Back to Dread, he has written a lot of stuff in the short time that I have been a member here. I have also read from his personal site in the past. I enjoy what he has written on many levels. One of which is as a philisophical one. For that, I feel that I owe him a little in return even if it only serves to make me feel better about myself.

Doc

[Dreadbelly]

What I really want more than anything, even more than prayer, is another strong capable human being to be with me should I go down to the Social Security office. Heck, probably two human beings. Maybe more.

Not for support... Not for companionship. Not for comfort. But somebody that would be physically capable of removing my hands from around somebody's neck should I go berserk.

I hate waiting. I wish I knew what was about to happen.

[Doc Hudson]

Alan,

I for one have no hard feelings toward you in the least. I to have been taken advantage of by folks with a sad story. I to have given money or goods that I could ill afford to help someone with a sad story.

I can well remember once in St. Louis Cathedral in New Orleans. As I was leaving the Sanctuary, an older black woman asked me to buy her some food. She said she'd spent the last of her money on medicine and was hungry. I happened to have some money in my shirt pocket, change from buying breakfast. I gave it to her. I later told my wife about it, and she asked if I figured the woman was on the level or if she'd took the money to buy booze or drugs. I was of the opinion, that if she was on the level, charity was good for my soul. And if she was scamming, in a Cathedral no less, then it was on her soul, not mine.

I can understand one who has been burned staying away from the fire. And besides, you are giving everything Dread personally asked for. Thanks for your honesty.