Kilt, Skirt, MUG, etc.

[Kilts_Knave]

Never did understand how it could morph to refer to somebody who was homosexual. Was it that people thought homosexuals were happier than others?

No, I can help out here. Gertrude Stein first used the term in "The Autobiography of Alice B. Toklas," which is also, by the way, where we get the recipe for her wonderful cookies!

[Kilts_Knave]

Oops, wrong story. This one: "Miss Furr & Mrs. Skeene." I was probably asleep in class at the time. The title above refers to Alice and Gertrude.

[KiltedCodeWarrior]

Oops, wrong story. This one: "Miss Furr & Mrs. Skeene." I was probably asleep in class at the time. The title above refers to Alice and Gertrude.

Kiltnave, thanks for the reference, I will have look it up!

[KiltedBishop]

I just called it clothing.

[Tiran]

Never did understand how it could morph to refer to somebody who was homosexual. Was it that people thought homosexuals were happier than others? Why were heterosexuals referred to as "straight"?

I have several books on lanuage, the origin of terms and the history of homosexuality and I have never come across an explanation that made sense for the use of the term gay. I could find only two reference in any of my books. The first is from the book that is the most questionalbe academically. It claims that gay is an evolution of the name Gaia, the greek term for the earth and the titan thereof. The only reasoning given is that the term Lesbian came from the isle of Lebos, in refernce to the poetess Sappho and her school that was located there. Questionable to say the least.
Another claims the term gay was used in the 16th cen. to refer to a promiscous woman, and gay men began using it for themselves in the 1920s, however it does not which of its sources this is from. More logical but still unsupported.
I will have to research the Gertrude Stein refernce.

Straight on the other hand came as the opposite of Bent, one of the better documented historical terms for gay that has fallen out of general use (as well as the title of a play about homosexuals set in Nazi Germany, starring Mick Jagger in the movie version).

There. Not that most of you care I am sure. :grin: Not that I care that you don't care lol :grin: Doesn't bother me in the least. :grin: But if other people can talk about guns, cars, wives and girlfriends, I can talk about language and being gay. :-D

[KiltedCodeWarrior]

Tiran,

Thanks for the follow-up. I am surprised that there is not more information between the word and the connection to homosexuals, and the reasoning behind it considering how recently it was popular. Of course, then again I am always that fag has the same connotation here in the states and in the UK is a cigarette, which makes sense because a ****** historically referred to a bundle of wood, usually burning. It still tickles me to here somebody from the UK ask somebody else for a fag!

[Shay]

Alright, for those interested in the etymology of the word and why it is hurtful, there is a progression shown here. However, I ask that you keep in mind our community is not all straight, and even knowing that certain words mean something else in a different context... doesn't make them totally free of any taint.

Frankly, I'm surprised the language filter doesn't pick that up.

[Kilts_Knave]

OK, in a series of postings with KiltedPride, he advanced the idea that UK, FK, USAK, etc. were not real kilts and should be referred to in some other way. While I do not want to debate what is or is not a "real" kilt here (pile on under the Kilts, the wise financial choice post). That exchange, and after reading an essay on the Bravehearts site by Dan Richardson, the owner of CitySkirts, I am wondering what everyone's thoughts are on the subject of the naming of this wonderful legless garment that we have all adopted. Having made the decision to wear a kilt, and having done so in public, I find that I am not much concerned if it is called a kilt, skirt, MUG, loin cloth, or any of a dozen other terms. However, I have seen on postings here that some do not care for the term MUG, and I am wondering if there are other terms that people find offensive to use in referring to a kilt, and why.

In replying, please try to keep posts up to the level of sophistication and courteousness (is that a word?) that is being shown on a number of other threads that deal with issues that we might have strong, and differing, opinions about.

RJI

I know this thread has veered away from its original intent, but above you can see the original post.

This post:

Alright, for those interested in the etymology of the word and why it is hurtful, there is a progression shown here

is "up to the level of" neither...

[Kid Cossack]

Gents:

No offense to the purists out there----but I don't limit my understanding of "kilt" to "8 yards of sixteen ounce tartan wool with knife pleats and three leather straps and buckles." That's certainly what a kilt was (recently enough), but few things remain static over the centuries. A good deer rifle in the 1790s was a flintlock single shot .40 caliber Pennsylvania rifle, and a good deer rifle today is a Winchester .30-30 (or whatever). Very different on the face of things, but they do the same thing and they're constructed along the same principles. I've got a 1995 Honda Civic del Sol that differs radically from a Ford Model T. Is it not a car? Or even, an automobile? I live on the Gulf Coast where we get 90/90 days regularly (heat/humidity). A pure-dee full-on traditional simply wouldn't be as good a choice for daily wear.

For me, the full on rig is more of a costume than clothing.

The thread seems to have adopted a side theme as well---about what the trousered think about it, and how to react to it. Hey, I'll tell people it's a kilt---I'll proselytize and propagandize, but really I don't much care what other people think. I like being kilted, and other people mostly seem to like it, and if some idjit wants to call it a skirt well, that's pretty much his glaring deficiencies showing themselves to the world and everyone.

Best,

[KiltedCodeWarrior]

I know this thread has veered away from its original intent, but above you can see the original post. Your last post is "up to the level of" neither...

Kilt_nave,

I realize that this thread has meandered back and forth, but I don't know what your comment is meant to imply. Was I uncourteous or unsophisticated in my last post? I was merely following up on an earlier post about language and how I am surprised on how words can morph over time. Let me know what you consider uncourteous or unsophisticated.